Outside Coaches Perception

[MW74]

First off, I was in the camp of firing Barry. Gabe, in looking at the last 3 years Barry had a record of 21-17 which ranks him tied for 58th in Division 1. When looking at P5 schools, Barry ranks 34 out of 65 (P5 + Notre Dame). Barry ranked 9th in the SEC during the last 3 years with the following programs having won more games:

Alabama - 37
Georgia - 35
LSU - 31
Auburn - 27
Florida - 24
Kentucky - 24
Mississippi State - 23
Texas A&M - 23

Barry was fired for losing the following games in 2018 and 2019:
2018 - South Carolina, Kentucky and Oklahoma State
2019 - Wyoming, Vanderbilt and Tennessee

Do you believe that coaches around the country are looking at this and saying based on the ability to recruit at Missouri that Barry's record is about 3 wins off and he got fired? If Barry would have split the 6 games over the last two years he would have won 24 games that would have ranked tied for 31st in Division 1, tied for 19th in P5 and jumped Mississippi State and A&M to tie Florida and Kentucky for the 5th best record in the SEC.

I wander if this is part of the problem being able to attract what we all would consider a name hire? Do you think coaches around the country believe that Barry was doing a good job based on the general national thought about Missouri as a program? Obviously, we all have a higher thought of our program but it would make sense that some coaches feel that Missouri is a mid level program in P5 / SEC and they just fired a coach after 4 years where in the last 3 he performed based on their perceived expectations.

 

[MIZZfanatic12]

Counter point: Sterk can sell that by saying if you don’t screw games up as awfully and as frequently as Odom did you’re gonna win enough to keep your job a long time.

 

[417 Tiger]

Yep. Thats exactly what i think. Couple that with Odom being an alum and our lack of fan support relative to the rest of the league and i think thats why we have the list we have right now

 

[sublime1]

Yes, I do believe this is what they think...no coach should be fired from Mizzou after a 6 win season. Of course we think differently since we believe the schedule was laid out for Odom to succeed. I think outside coaches see the admin and fan base as delusional.

 

[89tigger]

At this point I’m not sure we know if MIZZOU is the recruiting issue....or the coaches we’ve had.

 

[Christianmizzouguy]

First off, I was in the camp of firing Barry. Gabe, in looking at the last 3 years Barry had a record of 21-17 which ranks him tied for 58th in Division 1. When looking at P5 schools, Barry ranks 34 out of 65 (P5 + Notre Dame). Barry ranked 9th in the SEC during the last 3 years with the following programs having won more games:

Alabama - 37
Georgia - 35
LSU - 31
Auburn - 27
Florida - 24
Kentucky - 24
Mississippi State - 23
Texas A&M - 23

Barry was fired for losing the following games in 2018 and 2019:
2018 - South Carolina, Kentucky and Oklahoma State
2019 - Wyoming, Vanderbilt and Tennessee

Do you believe that coaches around the country are looking at this and saying based on the ability to recruit at Missouri that Barry's record is about 3 wins off and he got fired? If Barry would have split the 6 games over the last two years he would have won 24 games that would have ranked tied for 31st in Division 1, tied for 19th in P5 and jumped Mississippi State and A&M to tie Florida and Kentucky for the 5th best record in the SEC.

I wander if this is part of the problem being able to attract what we all would consider a name hire? Do you think coaches around the country believe that Barry was doing a good job based on the general national thought about Missouri as a program? Obviously, we all have a higher thought of our program but it would make sense that some coaches feel that Missouri is a mid level program in P5 / SEC and they just fired a coach after 4 years where in the last 3 he performed based on their perceived expectations.

Many said this would be an issue and we were laughed at and mocked as not valuing the job enough. Halfway through Arkyni was ready to fire him because I thought we'd lose. Saturday I'd come to think he should get another year if he fired Dooley. The past week I've road the roller coaster like everyone.

Like Gabe said Sterk may have his guy behind the scenes that some of us have been hearing at different times. If that's true he did a great search. But if the current hot board is accurate he jumped feet first into concrete with this one. I've heard Harsin was a done deal. I've heard theirs fire for McElwain. I'm hoping one of those is true. If not im hoping for Anderson cause he's the best G6 guy I see that hasn't told us no and I like him as a coach.

 

[dkpmu3]

Mizzou is limited on the coaches we attract for exactly what Gabe talked about in today’s update or hot board.

These guys are betting their careers that they will succeed at a school in the toughest conference with below average resources.

 

[boilertiger05]

First off, I was in the camp of firing Barry. Gabe, in looking at the last 3 years Barry had a record of 21-17 which ranks him tied for 58th in Division 1. When looking at P5 schools, Barry ranks 34 out of 65 (P5 + Notre Dame). Barry ranked 9th in the SEC during the last 3 years with the following programs having won more games:

Alabama - 37
Georgia - 35
LSU - 31
Auburn - 27
Florida - 24
Kentucky - 24
Mississippi State - 23
Texas A&M - 23

Barry was fired for losing the following games in 2018 and 2019:
2018 - South Carolina, Kentucky and Oklahoma State
2019 - Wyoming, Vanderbilt and Tennessee

Do you believe that coaches around the country are looking at this and saying based on the ability to recruit at Missouri that Barry's record is about 3 wins off and he got fired? If Barry would have split the 6 games over the last two years he would have won 24 games that would have ranked tied for 31st in Division 1, tied for 19th in P5 and jumped Mississippi State and A&M to tie Florida and Kentucky for the 5th best record in the SEC.

I wander if this is part of the problem being able to attract what we all would consider a name hire? Do you think coaches around the country believe that Barry was doing a good job based on the general national thought about Missouri as a program? Obviously, we all have a higher thought of our program but it would make sense that some coaches feel that Missouri is a mid level program in P5 / SEC and they just fired a coach after 4 years where in the last 3 he performed based on their perceived expectations.

They 100% see this as a tough job that doesnt pay well. Odom had no buyout.

We are staring down the barrel of 10 wins over the next 3 seasons.
Recruiting is dead.

Sterk killed the program and everyone wanted it to happen.

 

[brosept]

First off, I was in the camp of firing Barry. Gabe, in looking at the last 3 years Barry had a record of 21-17 which ranks him tied for 58th in Division 1. When looking at P5 schools, Barry ranks 34 out of 65 (P5 + Notre Dame). Barry ranked 9th in the SEC during the last 3 years with the following programs having won more games:

Alabama - 37
Georgia - 35
LSU - 31
Auburn - 27
Florida - 24
Kentucky - 24
Mississippi State - 23
Texas A&M - 23

Barry was fired for losing the following games in 2018 and 2019:
2018 - South Carolina, Kentucky and Oklahoma State
2019 - Wyoming, Vanderbilt and Tennessee

Do you believe that coaches around the country are looking at this and saying based on the ability to recruit at Missouri that Barry's record is about 3 wins off and he got fired? If Barry would have split the 6 games over the last two years he would have won 24 games that would have ranked tied for 31st in Division 1, tied for 19th in P5 and jumped Mississippi State and A&M to tie Florida and Kentucky for the 5th best record in the SEC.

I wander if this is part of the problem being able to attract what we all would consider a name hire? Do you think coaches around the country believe that Barry was doing a good job based on the general national thought about Missouri as a program? Obviously, we all have a higher thought of our program but it would make sense that some coaches feel that Missouri is a mid level program in P5 / SEC and they just fired a coach after 4 years where in the last 3 he performed based on their perceived expectations.

Our AD is an awful salesman if he is unable to put Barry’s performance into context. He lost more games when favored than any coach in the nation. He lost more games than anyone in the nation when (in game) he was expected to win. He never beat Kentucky. He had inexplicable extended losing streaks (like 4-5 games long) every season. He inherited a program 1 year removed from back to back SEC East titles with a record setting future NFL QB starting for 3 years. Anyone who follows and understands the game understands the reality of the situation.

 

[GabeD]

First off, I was in the camp of firing Barry. Gabe, in looking at the last 3 years Barry had a record of 21-17 which ranks him tied for 58th in Division 1. When looking at P5 schools, Barry ranks 34 out of 65 (P5 + Notre Dame). Barry ranked 9th in the SEC during the last 3 years with the following programs having won more games:

Alabama - 37
Georgia - 35
LSU - 31
Auburn - 27
Florida - 24
Kentucky - 24
Mississippi State - 23
Texas A&M - 23

Barry was fired for losing the following games in 2018 and 2019:
2018 - South Carolina, Kentucky and Oklahoma State
2019 - Wyoming, Vanderbilt and Tennessee

Do you believe that coaches around the country are looking at this and saying based on the ability to recruit at Missouri that Barry's record is about 3 wins off and he got fired? If Barry would have split the 6 games over the last two years he would have won 24 games that would have ranked tied for 31st in Division 1, tied for 19th in P5 and jumped Mississippi State and A&M to tie Florida and Kentucky for the 5th best record in the SEC.

I wander if this is part of the problem being able to attract what we all would consider a name hire? Do you think coaches around the country believe that Barry was doing a good job based on the general national thought about Missouri as a program? Obviously, we all have a higher thought of our program but it would make sense that some coaches feel that Missouri is a mid level program in P5 / SEC and they just fired a coach after 4 years where in the last 3 he performed based on their perceived expectations.

Few things: Odom list games he should have won. They should have been two games better in 2018 and at least two better in 2019

Odom was one play from getting another year. The tight end seam route va SC, the PI call or others against Kentucky, any of the crippling turnovers at Wyoming, the end zone pick at Vandy. Change one of them he stays. Change all of them he is actually pretty good. That’s how slim the margin is between success and failure

Missouri is usually going to be about the 9th best program in the SEC. actually, there are plenty of factors and arguments to say that’s better than they should be

I can’t say how it all factors into what every other coach thinks. Different for every guy

 

[Christianmizzouguy]

Few things: Odom list games he should have won. They should have been two games better in 2018 and at least two better in 2019

Odom was one play from getting another year. The tight end seam route va SC, the PI call or others against Kentucky, any of the crippling turnovers at Wyoming, the end zone pick at Vandy. Change one of them he stays. Change all of them he is actually pretty good. That’s how slim the margin is between success and failure

Missouri is usually going to be about the 9th best program in the SEC. actually, there are plenty of factors and arguments to say that’s better than they should be

I can’t say how it all factors into what every other coach thinks. Different for every guy

Gabe, is this morning the cut off for a BOC meeting? If this goes into next week are you expecting it to be a guy playing in a Championship game?

 

[doya]

First off, I was in the camp of firing Barry. Gabe, in looking at the last 3 years Barry had a record of 21-17 which ranks him tied for 58th in Division 1. When looking at P5 schools, Barry ranks 34 out of 65 (P5 + Notre Dame). Barry ranked 9th in the SEC during the last 3 years with the following programs having won more games:

Alabama - 37
Georgia - 35
LSU - 31
Auburn - 27
Florida - 24
Kentucky - 24
Mississippi State - 23
Texas A&M - 23

Barry was fired for losing the following games in 2018 and 2019:
2018 - South Carolina, Kentucky and Oklahoma State
2019 - Wyoming, Vanderbilt and Tennessee

Do you believe that coaches around the country are looking at this and saying based on the ability to recruit at Missouri that Barry's record is about 3 wins off and he got fired? If Barry would have split the 6 games over the last two years he would have won 24 games that would have ranked tied for 31st in Division 1, tied for 19th in P5 and jumped Mississippi State and A&M to tie Florida and Kentucky for the 5th best record in the SEC.

I wander if this is part of the problem being able to attract what we all would consider a name hire? Do you think coaches around the country believe that Barry was doing a good job based on the general national thought about Missouri as a program? Obviously, we all have a higher thought of our program but it would make sense that some coaches feel that Missouri is a mid level program in P5 / SEC and they just fired a coach after 4 years where in the last 3 he performed based on their perceived expectations.

i think coaches feel we are a lot closer to vandy than anybody else in the conference

 

[PinkelsVisor]

OP it’s true, and exactly why I was pissed the minute I heard we fired Odom.

Sterk never had his”guy” lined up. This was all reactionary and not tactical at all. Sterk thought he could go out and pick from the best and is finding out that’s not the case.

As Gabe pointed out, coaches notice these things like when you fire a guy who went 6-6 while dealing with NCAA sanctions.

 

[DSP73]

Unlike many posters, HC's are an optimistic bunch. They are by nature "do'ers" that look for and accept challenges. They are confident in their abilities.

So, their perception starts with that premise

They look for opportunities where they are best suited to succeed.

1) They look for stability in the school's administration. They view the AD as a partner, a guy that has to support him in getting the money and resources they need.

2) They look at resources. Is their sufficient $$$ to allow them to succeed?

3) They look at the recruiting base. What will they have to do to attract the in state as well as out of state talent? Does he have to do it on his own, or does the school have a cache or the overused "brand" that will assist. Will he have to fight negative images?

4) Are facilities in place (or in progress) that he needs to win (ie recruit)?

5) Can he attract high quality assistants? (Will the school pay?)


Sterk can resolve the "quick trigger" issue. He can be forthright on why he moved on from Odom (which was not simply that he won 6 and not 7 games). If the coach buys into that, and has a good rapport with him, then that issue can be resolved.


But again, these guys are "do'ers" by nature, and don't want to butt heads over issues that keep them from succeeding professionally.


So on the "home run hire"; if they see other schools have more of the above, they will gravitate to those jobs, or stay where they are, and seek the next opportunity. If they believe MU has it; they'll come

MU is like most of the schools in America; they have some but not all of the items on the coach's wish list. In fact, it has always been that way.

But coaches like Devine, or Pinkel or Powers saw MU as a place where they could win. There will be others

 

[TigerCruise]

Yep. Thats exactly what i think. Couple that with Odom being an alum and our lack of fan support relative to the rest of the league and i think thats why we have the list we have right now

Lack of fan support? We get 50k+ to games during a terrible season. Most of these coaching targets have 10k in the stands at their games.

 

[TigerCruise]

Few things: Odom list games he should have won. They should have been two games better in 2018 and at least two better in 2019

Odom was one play from getting another year. The tight end seam route va SC, the PI call or others against Kentucky, any of the crippling turnovers at Wyoming, the end zone pick at Vandy. Change one of them he stays. Change all of them he is actually pretty good. That’s how slim the margin is between success and failure

Missouri is usually going to be about the 9th best program in the SEC. actually, there are plenty of factors and arguments to say that’s better than they should be

I can’t say how it all factors into what every other coach thinks. Different for every guy

Problem is Odom always found a way to lose those games. A competent coach beats Georgia in 16, Kentucky the last 3 years, Vandy, Wyoming, etc.

Missouri should be better than Vanderbilt every season. Losing to them is unacceptable.

 

[Otis Blake]

My sense is Odom was difficult and confrontational as a very highly compensated employee. That’s risky. Usually burns people when their performance lags, regardless of the business.

He let his agent piss his boss off with the Louisville leak. He hired Dooley to do a job he’d never done for ridiculous money, right? He insisted on a vote of confidence in a death spiral. He refused to talk about last week’s game on his freaking coach’s show. And those are the things we know about. Can’t fix stupid.

If that context scares a guy, he doesn’t belong on the list.

 

[mizzoucub]

Yes, I do believe this is what they think...no coach should be fired from Mizzou after a 6 win season. Of course we think differently since we believe the schedule was laid out for Odom to succeed. I think outside coaches see the admin and fan base as delusional.

This is a ridiculous take. It is so easy to win 6 games with a crap schedule. Odom won 6 games and he lost to Wyoming and Vandy. Odom feasted on TERRIBLE teams. He won 3 games vs teams with winning records, that included 7-6 Arkansas his first year. Odom sucked and Mizzou can and should ask more of their football coach.

 

[sublime1]

This is a ridiculous take. It is so easy to win 6 games with a crap schedule. Odom won 6 games and he lost to Wyoming and Vandy. Odom feasted on TERRIBLE teams. He won 3 games vs teams with winning records, that included 7-6 Arkansas his first year. Odom sucked and Mizzou can and should ask more of their football coach.

LOL Okay. So you think outside coaching candidates know this?

 

[mizzoucub]

LOL Okay. So you think outside coaching candidates know this?

Yeah, its not hard to see that Odom was 3-24 vs teams with winning records....it was all over Twitter.

 

[dwdowell]

This is a ridiculous take. It is so easy to win 6 games with a crap schedule. Odom won 6 games and he lost to Wyoming and Vandy. Odom feasted on TERRIBLE teams. He won 3 games vs teams with winning records, that included 7-6 Arkansas his first year. Odom sucked and Mizzou can and should ask more of their football coach.

I agree. I do not understand the thought process that says 6 wins is the bar for keeping your job at Mizzou. Yes, we qualified for a bowl game this year but with this schedule there is no getting around the fact that this year was an unmitigated disaster. I do not know if firing BO was the right call this year or not but winning 6 games on that schedule while losing to Wyoming, Vandy are not the best arguments for keeping him.

 

[sublime1]

I agree. I do not understand the thought process that says 6 wins is the bar for keeping your job at Mizzou. Yes, we qualified for a bowl game this year but with this schedule there is no getting around the fact that this year was an unmitigated disaster. I do not know if firing BO was the right call this year or not but winning 6 games on that schedule while losing to Wyoming, Vandy are not the best arguments for keeping him.

And my point in my original post was...we as a fan base gets it. Outside coaches see his record of..

4-8
8-4
7-5
6-6

pretty much the standard at Mizzou. A lot of coaches won't do the homework and come to the conclusion that Barry deserved to get fired. Coaches are a tight knit group. They see Mizzou as a difficult place to win at a high level and they are firing coaches that win 6 games. We're not Ohio St.

 

[Will_L]

My sense is Odom was difficult and confrontational as a very highly compensated employee. That’s risky. Usually burns people when their performance lags, regardless of the business.

He let his agent piss his boss off with the Louisville leak. He hired Dooley to do a job he’d never done for ridiculous money, right? He insisted on a vote of confidence in a death spiral. He refused to talk about last week’s game on his freaking coach’s show. And those are the things we know about. Can’t fix stupid.

If that context scares a guy, he doesn’t belong on the list.

I think you are wrong about Odom and Sexton. Read a big article onESPN about Jimmy Sexton. It was from 15. I can’t link it but I’m sure if check espn search will come up. In it they talked about his skill in negotiating and not making it personal. They talked with coaches and others, Saban said “He never pisses anyone off. He handles the negotiations and nobody gets angry. He often is 5he agent for the guy getting fired and looking for a job and the guy wanting the one he was fired from. He handles that crap as smooth as a funeral director.

My guess is that Sterk did not like Odom period. He was very reluctant to give an SEC contract with average salary and buyout even though the program was on the rise with 7 and 8 wins. He was anxious to get rid of Odom as many of you. But my guess is that he was the unreasonable party and got his nose bent out of shape by a far superior negotiator. Put one win last year and two wins that should have happened this year and you are looking at Odom being mentioned for most jobs open. It’s a crazy business, I think Sterk has very little experience with the big boys. He thinks he can have his way or the highway.

If I am correct few coaches with the resume you want for a hopefully mid pack sec team will want to subject themselves without large buyout and long contract. Even with that they don’t want to work for Scrooge.

Could be wrong Mac will be named and it all work out.

 

[Forever A Tiger]

They 100% see this as a tough job that doesnt pay well. Odom had no buyout.

We are staring down the barrel of 10 wins over the next 3 seasons.
Recruiting is dead.

Sterk killed the program and everyone wanted it to happen.

I don't buy your doesn't pay well argument. Pinkel was at $4M five years ago which I believe had him in the top 20 in the country. Why should it stop anyone from at least asking what the salary range would be? There are plenty of factors that would keep a coach from being interested, I doubt salary is one of them.

 

[Mosnowman]

As an aged Mizzou fan I now expect only the following..

1. Be competitive in the SEC East - Finish 1-2-3 / Play spoiler to Georgia - maybe win East?
2. Bowl Eligibility - other than Shreveport
3. Have a fan base that aren’t whiny babies about everything
4. Be known for our awesome tailgating experience

Some may see this as a loser mentality, I get that. However after 40 years of fandom, I have finally come to the conclusion that having high expectations for the University of Missouri Football or Basketball Programs is detrimental to one’s health. Mizzou no longer deserves my loyalty, though I will graciously continue to give it. I fully expect more of the same from now on.

 

[daydreamin]

And my point in my original post was...we as a fan base gets it. Outside coaches see his record of..

4-8
8-4
7-5
6-6

pretty much the standard at Mizzou. A lot of coaches won't do the homework and come to the conclusion that Barry deserved to get fired. Coaches are a tight knit group. They see Mizzou as a difficult place to win at a high level and they are firing coaches that win 6 games. We're not Ohio St.

you are clueless

 

[sublime1]

you are clueless

LOL explain genius.

 

[dwdowell]

And my point in my original post was...we as a fan base gets it. Outside coaches see his record of..

4-8
8-4
7-5
6-6

pretty much the standard at Mizzou. A lot of coaches won't do the homework and come to the conclusion that Barry deserved to get fired. Coaches are a tight knit group. They see Mizzou as a difficult place to win at a high level and they are firing coaches that win 6 games. We're not Ohio St.

I understand your point and there is some validity to it. However, if there is a coach in the running that isn't doing his homework then I don't want him anyway. We are not Ohio State but we are also not Missouri State. I would like to think that the next coach looks at this past years schedule and thinks he could have beaten Wyoming, and Vandy and one of UK or TN and finished the season with 9 wins. Any coach that thinks 6 wins was the gold standard this year or last year is not worth hiring in my opinion.

 

[Otis Blake]

My guess is that Sterk did not like Odom period.

When your boss doesn’t like you, it’s your problem, not his.

 

[sublime1]

I understand your point and there is some validity to it. However, if there is a coach in the running that isn't doing his homework then I don't want him anyway. We are not Ohio State but we are also not Missouri State. I would like to think that the next coach looks at this past years schedule and thinks he could have beaten Wyoming, and Vandy and one of UK or TN and finished the season with 9 wins. Any coach that thinks 6 wins was the gold standard this year or last year is not worth hiring in my opinion.

You have absolute valid points. I agreed that making the move to fire Odom was one that was necessary. I also know who we are to some of the outsiders. There are those who will think..."who does Missouri think they are firing a coach that has been bowl eligible 3 straight years." I realize we aren't Mo St. either...I would like the school to be held in the same regards of the higher profile programs.

 

[unclepoppop]

The quality of the wins has to come into consideration in all this. At least I would think so.

Winning 20 games to smaller schools or losing P5 teams is not a star on any flag really.

If we are going to be in the SEC let's play like it. Those losses are bad losses. Regardless how close they may have been.

 

[Will_L]

When your boss doesn’t like you, it’s your problem, not his.

Not always. If it's because he gets butthurt in contract negotiations with your agent who does this daily and has a reputation for being professional but effective in his negotiations. The coach does not generally get involved face to face with the Ad. It seems Sterk did little more than extend the contract. Perhaps he resented the leak of interest from Miss. State. But that is business. A good Ad can't let it get personal.

The other huge problem is that if firing a coach becomes personal. That word will get out. If it was due to negotiations with Sexton as Gabe alluded, that is poison for the AD.

 

[Otis Blake]

Not always. If it's because he gets butthurt in contract negotiations with your agent who does this daily and has a reputation for being professional but effective in his negotiations. The coach does not generally get involved face to face with the Ad. It seems Sterk did little more than extend the contract. Perhaps he resented the leak of interest from Miss. State. But that is business. A good Ad can't let it get personal.

The other huge problem is that if firing a coach becomes personal. That word will get out. If it was due to negotiations with Sexton as Gabe alluded, that is poison for the AD.

Let me rephrase.

If you want to keep your job and your boss doesn’t like you, it’s your problem, not his.

Selling up is part of every executive gig.

Might be worthwhile comparing staff turnover per capita for both guys.

 

[albany66]

Unlike many posters, HC's are an optimistic bunch. They are by nature "do'ers" that look for and accept challenges. They are confident in their abilities.

So, their perception starts with that premise

They look for opportunities where they are best suited to succeed.

1) They look for stability in the school's administration. They view the AD as a partner, a guy that has to support him in getting the money and resources they need.

2) They look at resources. Is their sufficient $$$ to allow them to succeed?

3) They look at the recruiting base. What will they have to do to attract the in state as well as out of state talent? Does he have to do it on his own, or does the school have a cache or the overused "brand" that will assist. Will he have to fight negative images?

4) Are facilities in place (or in progress) that he needs to win (ie recruit)?

5) Can he attract high quality assistants? (Will the school pay?)


Sterk can resolve the "quick trigger" issue. He can be forthright on why he moved on from Odom (which was not simply that he won 6 and not 7 games). If the coach buys into that, and has a good rapport with him, then that issue can be resolved.


But again, these guys are "do'ers" by nature, and don't want to butt heads over issues that keep them from succeeding professionally.


So on the "home run hire"; if they see other schools have more of the above, they will gravitate to those jobs, or stay where they are, and seek the next opportunity. If they believe MU has it; they'll come

MU is like most of the schools in America; they have some but not all of the items on the coach's wish list. In fact, it has always been that way.

But coaches like Devine, or Pinkel or Powers saw MU as a place where they could win. There will be others

Good take give us a view from the outside.

 

[Otis Blake]

MU is like most of the schools in America; they have some but not all of the items on the coach's wish list. In fact, it has always been that way.

But coaches like Devine, or Pinkel or Powers saw MU as a place where they could win. There will be others

Great post.

Good people look for upside. For a guy like Harsin, I would sell:

• best league
• easier division
• recent success
• big budget
• upgraded facilities
• only FBS program in a large state
• opportunity to be the guy after the guy (BO) after the guy (GP) - good timing

We have a lot to sell. Hiring a prime target takes a guy seeing it and getting it. It’s not unlike recruiting a player.

 

[alphajay98]

First off, I was in the camp of firing Barry. Gabe, in looking at the last 3 years Barry had a record of 21-17 which ranks him tied for 58th in Division 1. When looking at P5 schools, Barry ranks 34 out of 65 (P5 + Notre Dame). Barry ranked 9th in the SEC during the last 3 years with the following programs having won more games:

Alabama - 37
Georgia - 35
LSU - 31
Auburn - 27
Florida - 24
Kentucky - 24
Mississippi State - 23
Texas A&M - 23

Barry was fired for losing the following games in 2018 and 2019:
2018 - South Carolina, Kentucky and Oklahoma State
2019 - Wyoming, Vanderbilt and Tennessee

Do you believe that coaches around the country are looking at this and saying based on the ability to recruit at Missouri that Barry's record is about 3 wins off and he got fired? If Barry would have split the 6 games over the last two years he would have won 24 games that would have ranked tied for 31st in Division 1, tied for 19th in P5 and jumped Mississippi State and A&M to tie Florida and Kentucky for the 5th best record in the SEC.

I wander if this is part of the problem being able to attract what we all would consider a name hire? Do you think coaches around the country believe that Barry was doing a good job based on the general national thought about Missouri as a program? Obviously, we all have a higher thought of our program but it would make sense that some coaches feel that Missouri is a mid level program in P5 / SEC and they just fired a coach after 4 years where in the last 3 he performed based on their perceived expectations.

Depends almost entirely on how much game film they've seen.

Mizzou was transparently a poorly coached team this year.

Wyoming falls entirely on coaching/preparation -- you know Craig Bohl's guys will be ready to play.

This Vanderbilt team has vastly less talent, which in a typical year would be firing their coach.

It's not just one aspect of coaching, either. The scheme was bad, and obvious adjustments weren't made. And the team consistently wasn't ready to play mentally, otherwise they win Vandy/Wyoming even with lousy schemes.

Three 5-game losing streaks in 4 years isn't lost on coaches, either. By comparison, Pinkel had one in 12 years.

Coaches are also keenly aware of how much talent Mizzou has put in the NFL the past 15 years, and how much is on the roster now. This is not a case like Louisville where you've got to scheme for any advantage to cover massive talent gaps.

 

[alphajay98]

Not always. If it's because he gets butthurt in contract negotiations with your agent who does this daily and has a reputation for being professional but effective in his negotiations. The coach does not generally get involved face to face with the Ad. It seems Sterk did little more than extend the contract. Perhaps he resented the leak of interest from Miss. State. But that is business. A good Ad can't let it get personal.

The other huge problem is that if firing a coach becomes personal. That word will get out. If it was due to negotiations with Sexton as Gabe alluded, that is poison for the AD.

From a business standpoint, Sterk largely 'won' that round of negotiations, in terms of giving far less than Sexton sought. I'm also guessing Sexton repeated comments that should be kept between an AD and an agent in order to get Barry to give him permission to leak Louisville. From what Gabe has reported, it sounds like Barry's attitude toward Sterk may have changed, too.

 

[alphajay98]

Our AD is an awful salesman if he is unable to put Barry’s performance into context. He lost more games when favored than any coach in the nation. He lost more games than anyone in the nation when (in game) he was expected to win. He never beat Kentucky. He had inexplicable extended losing streaks (like 4-5 games long) every season. He inherited a program 1 year removed from back to back SEC East titles with a record setting future NFL QB starting for 3 years. Anyone who follows and understands the game understands the reality of the situation.

Well said. Three 5-game losing streaks in 4 years should not happen with the talent on this roster. Losses to Wyoming and Vandy were transparently bad coaching -- and folks seem to ignore that we played down to the level of a horrible Arkansas team. If we were truly 'one play away' from keeping Odom another year, we'd have an entirely different set of problems absent a total overhaul of the offensive staff.

 

[alphajay98]

Let me rephrase.

If you want to keep your job and your boss doesn’t like you, it’s your problem, not his.

Selling up is part of every executive gig.

Might be worthwhile comparing staff turnover per capita for both guys.

Exactly!!!

Odom failed to sell his OC job to at least 6 candidates.

He failed to sell his offensive staff on the need to make scheme adjustments during his 3rd 5-game losing streak, when he knew the entire staff's jobs were on the line. Or maybe he just didn't try, which is a different leadership issue.

He failed to sell his players on the individual commitment needed to be mentally prepared for games against opponents of all talent levels.

Odom knew the score (or should have).

Sterk is accountable for more than football wins. Sterk was gonna get at least one shot to make a football hire. He had consistently declining ticket revenue to seal his argument, whenever he chose to make it.

I think Odom took personally stuff said in negotiating the extension (which was not a huge win for Jimmy Sexton), and started an internal dialogue with himself that revolved around his equity with Curators. That can quickly lead to an attitude and behaviors that a boss can frame as uncooperative, which just further buttresses the more objective performance based reasons for change.

 

[Otis Blake]

Exactly!!!

Odom failed to sell his OC job to at least 6 candidates.

He failed to sell his offensive staff on the need to make scheme adjustments during his 3rd 5-game losing streak, when he knew the entire staff's jobs were on the line. Or maybe he just didn't try, which is a different leadership issue.

He failed to sell his players on the individual commitment needed to be mentally prepared for games against opponents of all talent levels.

Odom knew the score (or should have).

Sterk is accountable for more than football wins. Sterk was gonna get at least one shot to make a football hire. He had consistently declining ticket revenue to seal his argument, whenever he chose to make it.

I think Odom took personally stuff said in negotiating the extension (which was not a huge win for Jimmy Sexton), and started an internal dialogue with himself that revolved around his equity with Curators. That can quickly lead to an attitude and behaviors that a boss can frame as uncooperative, which just further buttresses the more objective performance based reasons for change.

If you’re looking for a guy to ram through a brick wall with his head, BO’s your guy.