Waiting 3 Years on Coach is Stupid.

[Zoufan27]

schools need to change their thinking on such a ludicrous mind set. Either the coach can coach talent (to any degree) or they can't. A three year investment actually is a 4 year process. If that coach doesn't workout, schools have to spend time searching for a replacement and lose time on recruits and staffing, not to mention scheme changes.

If a team shows that they are not showing improvement, then changes must be made. And if the coach doesn't make improvements in year two, then it should be time for the AD to make a move.

 

[BPhilb]

schools need to change their thinking on such a ludicrous mind set. Either the coach can coach talent (to any degree) or they can't. A three year investment actually is a 4 year process. If that coach doesn't workout, schools have to spend time searching for a replacement and lose time on recruits and staffing, not to mention scheme changes.

If a team shows that they are not showing improvement, then changes must be made. And if the coach doesn't make improvements in year two, then it should be time for the AD to make a move.

Changing coaches each year or 2 would lead to mass chaos. It is not a sustainable model.

 

[Zoufan27]

Changing coaches each year or 2 would lead to mass chaos. It is not a sustainable model.

So besides MU BB, what other job gives you years to correct bad judgment and poor leadership? I think Odom is going through typical first year issues but I also think that he either doesn't have the right staff or isn't listening to any advice he's been given.

 

[HnstTune]

What coach worth a damn are you going to attract if you have a history of 1 & 2 year turnover at the position?

 

[GabeD]

Changing coaches each year or 2 would lead to mass chaos. It is not a sustainable model.

Should change weekly IYAM. Unless they win. Then give him another week

 

[MizzouCard]

Hiring coaches with no previous experience is also stupid, hopefully Mizzou has learned their lesson

 

[bakker]

What coach worth a damn are you going to attract if you have a history of 1 & 2 year turnover at the position?

Why would a coach worth a damn hold it against mu for possibly having the sense to correct a mistake the current ad didn't make? This isn't just about the very bad results on the field but seemingly very poor recruiting. These would be very particular circumstances that should be very obvious to any coach worth a damn if mu should decide to pull the trigger, which I doubt they will

 

[SecondCityTiger]

So besides MU BB, what other job gives you years to correct bad judgment and poor leadership?

Most executive level positions.

 

[417 Tiger]

Changing coaches each year or 2 would lead to mass chaos. It is not a sustainable model.

It's amazing how people don't get this. I'm as pissed off as anyone I know over this mess, my girlfriend hates me on Saturdays. However, there is a laundry list of good coaches who struggled early in their tenure. Our best bet (whether it works or not) is to hope Odom can get this thing going in the right direction. I think he can; I know that right now it's a shit sandwich but Im gonna give him a shot.

 

[bburge]

Why would a coach worth a damn hold it against mu for possibly having the sense to correct a mistake the current ad didn't make? This isn't just about the very bad results on the field but seemingly very poor recruiting. These would be very particular circumstances that should be very obvious to any coach worth a damn if mu should decide to pull the trigger, which I doubt they will

So if I'm a "good coach" and I'm inheriting bad talent, and even if I succeed in recruiting it's going to take 3-4 years to turn things around, why would I go someplace that will fire me after two years?

 

[Abefor12]

Should change weekly IYAM. Unless they win. Then give him another week

Maybe if it's a close loss...like with a video replay...you have a fan vote on whether they get another week...you could do it like a fundraiser...they 100 who vote on whether the coach comes back hafta donate $100 per vote.

And sell cookies. Or beer.

 

[Tigermike_]

I think everyone wants Mizzou to win and win now. I'm not saying Odom is or isn't going to be successful at Mizzou as Idk. BO did step into a tough and unique situation and I think he has to be given some time. I hate the losing as much as anyone and I wish we had 30 high school commits that are all 4 and 5 star.

It's not like Mizzou had top flight experienced coaches knocking on the door last year after all that went on here. Maybe we could hire Nick Saban away from Alabama (sarcasm intended). My favorite example of a school having patience with a coach is Colorado and Bill McCartney. They went 1-10 in his third year and they kept him and it eventually paid off with a National Championship.

 

[Abefor12]

I think everyone wants Mizzou to win and win now. I'm not saying Odom is or isn't going to be successful at Mizzou as Idk. BO did step into a tough and unique situation and I think he has to be given some time. I hate the losing as much as anyone and I wish we had 30 high school commits that are all 4 and 5 star.

It's not like Mizzou had top flight experienced coaches knocking on the door last year after all that went on here. Maybe we could hire Nick Saban away from Alabama (sarcasm intended). My favorite example of a school having patience with a coach is Colorado and Bill McCartney. They went 1-10 in his third year and they kept him and it eventually paid off with a National Championship.

You had me until you brought up Mac. Sorry.

 

[SpikesDown6]

What coach worth a damn are you going to attract if you have a history of 1 & 2 year turnover at the position?

/thread

 

[dataminer]

I think everyone wants Mizzou to win and win now. I'm not saying Odom is or isn't going to be successful at Mizzou as Idk. BO did step into a tough and unique situation and I think he has to be given some time. I hate the losing as much as anyone and I wish we had 30 high school commits that are all 4 and 5 star.

It's not like Mizzou had top flight experienced coaches knocking on the door last year after all that went on here. Maybe we could hire Nick Saban away from Alabama (sarcasm intended). My favorite example of a school having patience with a coach is Colorado and Bill McCartney. They went 1-10 in his third year and they kept him and it eventually paid off with a National Championship.

Was it the patience or was it that it was McCartney? Had we given Woody more than 4 years would he have finally turned it around?

 

[dataminer]

Changing coaches each year or 2 would lead to mass chaos. It is not a sustainable model.

But that's not what's being proposed. What's being proposed is, if it's clear you don't have the right guy, cut bait.

 

[afroge]

schools need to change their thinking on such a ludicrous mind set. Either the coach can coach talent (to any degree) or they can't. A three year investment actually is a 4 year process. If that coach doesn't workout, schools have to spend time searching for a replacement and lose time on recruits and staffing, not to mention scheme changes.

If a team shows that they are not showing improvement, then changes must be made. And if the coach doesn't make improvements in year two, then it should be time for the AD to make a move.

This line of thinking is what took Mizzou to the dark ages in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Remote Controlled]

I'm not seeing any sort of improvement. Losing is one thing, not seeing anything that lets us know this team is figuring things out doesn't bode well for Odom.

I'd cut bait at the end of the year, but only if the right hire is there and ready to go.

 

[Abefor12]

But that's not what's being proposed. What's being proposed is, if it's clear you don't have the right guy, cut bait.

And you know that? From what row in the stands?

 

[Abefor12]

I'm not seeing any sort of improvement. Losing is one thing, not seeing anything that lets us know this team is figuring things out doesn't bode well for Odom.

I'd cut bait at the end of the year, but only if the right hire is there and ready to go.

And it won't be.

 

[Remote Controlled]

Unfortunately, I think you're right.

Odom would have been a fine hire in a vacuum, but given the circumstances, its untenable for a first year P5 guy.

 

[Ragarm]

schools need to change their thinking on such a ludicrous mind set. Either the coach can coach talent (to any degree) or they can't. A three year investment actually is a 4 year process. If that coach doesn't workout, schools have to spend time searching for a replacement and lose time on recruits and staffing, not to mention scheme changes.

If a team shows that they are not showing improvement, then changes must be made. And if the coach doesn't make improvements in year two, then it should be time for the AD to make a move.

I'm guessing you wouldn't advocate being fired from your job after one week would you.

 

[dennyb64]

Another asinine post.

 

[dataminer]

And you know that? From what row in the stands?

I'm not saying I know. I'm not making the decision. If you're the AD and you can't make that determination, you're not qualified to be the AD.

Point is, the 3-year rule is arbitrary, particularly if you inherited the guy.

 

[Abefor12]

I'm not saying I know. I'm not making the decision. If you're the AD and you can't make that determination, you're not qualified to be the AD.

Point is, the 3-year rule is arbitrary, particularly if you inherited the guy.

That's absolutely stupid.

How many universities have canned a coach one year in dataminer?

 

[CoachHeet]

First, the idea that a first time head coach can't be successful in the SEC is ludicrous. If the NBA championship can be won by a coach who coached his first game in the middle of the season then a first time SEC coach can be successful (yes, I understand it is completely different circumstances, but the NBA is a higher level then SEC football so it technically should be tougher to succeed with no experience).

There also has to be an understanding at a school like Mizzou that you have so many things already going against you in the SEC that you have to gain advantages in areas such as coaching continuity, which Coach Odom understands (see Coach Ford and Coach Hill staying to help with Missouri recruiting). Cutting bait after one year at a school like Alabama would be more successful because of all their resources and tradition, Missouri doesn't have that and a revolving door of coaches could become a serious issue that could create an even longer dark ages period.

This is just food for thought and how hard and complicated it can be to win even with a good staff. How in the world was Coach Stull and his staff not more successful? Andy Reid, Dirk Koetter, etc., my goodness. Hard to imagine that group wasn't more successful.

Last point, the greatest college basketball coach of all-time was nearly fired after his third year because of results, I think Duke made the right call in giving Coach K another year.

Point is, none of us have any idea where this program will be in three years based off today's game or the rest of this season.

 

[dataminer]

That's absolutely stupid.

How many universities have canned a coach one year in dataminer?

I'm sure it's happened, but why is precedent required?

 

[bakker]

So if I'm a "good coach" and I'm inheriting bad talent, and even if I succeed in recruiting it's going to take 3-4 years to turn things around, why would I go someplace that will fire me after two years?

You mentioned something that seemingly would be a big difference, success in recruiting. You would assume mu would look for someone with a track record thus if they recruited well and the team was improving why would you even consider firing the new coach. Recruiting well and having a team show improvement are two important variables that seem to be escaping the current staff. Maybe it will improve but a new ad can more latitude to consider a change than if it was the former ad who hired him.

 

[Abefor12]

I'm sure it's happened, but why is precedent required?

You want our AD to be known as the guy who fired a promising DC after one year?

Compounded with terrible facilities...poor student support...poor fan support...poor recruiting areas...poor pay...

Need I go on?

And no, it hasn't happened. Not without more.

 

[Tigermike_]

You had me until you brought up Mac. Sorry.

Well, I didn't say he was my favorite coach!

 

[dataminer]

You want our AD to be known as the guy who fired a promising DC after one year?

Compounded with terrible facilities...poor student support...poor fan support...poor recruiting areas...poor pay...

Need I go on?

And no, it hasn't happened. Not without more.

I notice you didn't say "promising hc"

 

[dataminer]

You want our AD to be known as the guy who fired a promising DC after one year?

Compounded with terrible facilities...poor student support...poor fan support...poor recruiting areas...poor pay...

Need I go on?

And no, it hasn't happened. Not without more.

I am led to believe that this school just pushed out the winningest coach in history, who wrestled the program out of a 20-year shithole and won four division titles outright and had two top 5 finishes, solely because he allowed players to participate in a protest of racism on campus. Yet, it'd be a travesty to replace a 2-10 first-year coach whose team's performance disintegrated as the season wore in and whose recruiting results were poor?

 

[mutigers]

What coach worth a damn are you going to attract if you have a history of 1 & 2 year turnover at the position?

Pay and they'll come. I want to give Odom time but if this shit show continues for three more years then your starting again four years down the road. It's a difficult situation.

 

[Abefor12]

I am led to believe that this school just pushed out the winningest coach in history, who wrestled the program out of a 20-year shithole and won four division titles outright and had two top 5 finishes, solely because he allowed players to participate in a protest of racism on campus. Yet, it'd be a travesty to replace a 2-10 first-year coach whose team's performance disintegrated as the season wore in and whose recruiting results were poor?

You always drag everything back to the protest, huh.

 

[dataminer]

You always drag everything back to the protest, huh.

Strange thing to say. I was told by multiple people, including Gabe, today that Pinkel was pushed out over the protest. I couldn't believe it.

 

[Abefor12]

Strange thing to say. I was told by multiple people, including Gabe, today that Pinkel was pushed out over the protest. I couldn't believe it.

I'm not interested in this game.

My point was no AD would fire a first year coach. You've gone a different direction. I'm out.

 

[dataminer]

I'm not interested in this game.

My point was no AD would fire a first year coach. You've gone a different direction. I'm out.

Do what you like, but I think you're copping out. it's the BO apologists who keep bringing up the protest as an excuse for this year's on-field performance. My point is that we cut bait with better over less just last year.

 

[agi_tater]

For the life of me I can't figure out what the eff kind of bizzaro world I've woke up to today where so many people suddenly think firing a football coach after ONE F'ing season is somehow the way things should be done in today's world. W.T.F has caused the masses to go off the deep end on this and lose any form of rational thought,common sense, and sanity on this?

• Why do coaching changes usually occur to begin with? It's usually because things have bottomed out, but we had a bit of an odd circumstance with our situation with the boycott/protest shit last year, but like it or not we were a program on the decline before that anyway. And we're seeing that fact come full circle based on the talent we've got leftover from the previous staff that's comprising our starters and roster in general this year. Whether Pinkel left/retired after last season or not, we were well set up for a couple of down years here regardless of who was coaching.
• We've had 2 coaches lead us to winning seasons and bowl games since ,what, 1983? Two. That's it. I think Larry Smith began his tenure here with consecutive 3 win seasons. Pinkel won 4 games his first year, and I think 5 in his second year. Based on what I've read on here plenty of times today, both of those two should have been canned after 2 seasons at the helm, only winning 6 and 9 games respectively in their first two seasons.
• Just to be clear here with this line of thinking: Any first year coaches at Mizzou that want to bring their own systems and schemes with them must have them running full tilt from day and year one, without even the benefit of having even 2 full recruiting classes on campus yet that they would recruit to fit their schemes and systems? And also those freshmen and sophomores better be fully developed and ready to rip ass and excel in said schemes and systems from the time they set foot on campus to have everything running like a well oiled machine, correct?

Maybe I'm alone in seeing the lunacy involved with the idea of wanting to run a 1st year head coach 8 games into his first season out of town on a rail, and if so, then so be it I guess. I understand this sucks, and that it's emotional for a lot of us. Hell, I'm devastated at what I'm seeing every week myself just like the rest of you. But Jesus Christ, like it or not, hate it or not, agree with it or not, we hitched our wagon to Barry Odom for at least 3-4 years. I think it's owed to everyone involved to see how it plays out. He either turns it around in years two and three like Larry Smith and Pinkel did or he drives it off a cliff, but there's just no way under the sun you can't give Barry Odom or any other coach we might've hired the opportunity to prove they can get it done or not. I just fail to see how that determination can be made in any college football coaching situation in one year anytime, anywhere, in any situation. Ever.

 

[Remote Controlled]

This ain't the same landscape.

This is the SEC.

With all due respect to LS, he accomplished nothing, other than getting us to a bowl again, which looking back shouldn't have been that hard. It's just that we sucked, so bad, for so long, that he seemed like a savior.

The early GP years sucked, and when we thought he had it together, Troy St. happened. He got Chase and JMac, but still sort of failed, at least in the big picture.

Then the SEC came calling, everything reset, and 2013 should have been the summit, instead it became a flawed attempt 3/4 of the way to Mt. Everest, both on the field and on the road, sticking with Texas recruits nets us something after a season like that.

Instead we rejoice over the Nate Browns of the world, because Georgia. So on and so forth.

This isn't 1995 Big 8 football, it's not 2000 Big 12 football either. It's 2016, we're in the SEC, and everyone around us is constantly trying to improve.

They aren't watering the tree everyday and waiting for it to bear fruit. They plant a tree ready to bear fruit, and if it refuses to they plant another and take their chances.

Grow up, the Big 8/12 days are over.

 

[agi_tater]

This ain't the same landscape.

This is the SEC.

With all due respect to LS, he accomplished nothing, other than getting us to a bowl again, which looking back shouldn't have been that hard. It's just that we sucked, so bad, for so long, that he seemed like a savior.

The early GP years sucked, and when we thought he had it together, Troy St. happened. He got Chase and JMac, but still sort of failed, at least in the big picture.

Then the SEC came calling, everything reset, and 2013 should have been the summit, instead it became a flawed attempt 3/4 of the way to Mt. Everest, both on the field and on the road, sticking with Texas recruits nets us something after a season like that.

Instead we rejoice over the Nate Browns of the world, because Georgia. So on and so forth.

This isn't 1995 Big 8 football, it's not 2000 Big 12 football either. It's 2016, we're in the SEC, and everyone around us is constantly trying to improve.

They aren't watering the tree everyday and waiting for it to bear fruit. They plant a tree ready to bear fruit, and if it refuses to they plant another and take their chances.

Grow up, the Big 8/12 days are over.

You're absolutely right about the Big8/12 days being over. But we're still Mizzou and I'm not sure many in our fanbase get that. I see no way we're anything higher than the 10th to 12th best job in the SEC, and I may even being a little kind with those numbers. Count in other high profile jobs across the country from the Blue Bloods from the Big 10, ACC, PAC, even the B12, and realistically we might be a Top 30-50 job in the entire country. And yet many on here act like we're in a position to just snap our fingers and get our pick of the best coaches available in the country. Sorry boys, Mizzou just isn't that attratctive of a gig in the grand scheme of college football, and that's not changing anytime soon.

I said it earlier today, but it's worth saying again in my mind, for a Athletic Department over the years that's done next to jack shit in the way of winning National or even Conference titles in any of the major revenue sports, it simply amazes me the arrogance and false sense of entitlement in regards to where we rate in the landscape of the major revenue college sports from a good majority of our fanbase. We've failed to really ever do shit on a national level, but have a good portion of the fanbase that seems to think we're a legit Blue Blood Top 10-15 destination job in Football and Basketball. And that's as pathetic as it is comical unfortunately.