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BASKETBALL SOME THOUGHTS AFTER FLORIDA 79, MIZZOU 67

Couple of things.

-remember when people were freaking out gates kept swinging and missing on getting a legitimate big in the portal.
-the rotations are a nightmare. He often times subs for no reason even when things are going well. Tonight it was Mabor going in the first half. It appeared gates was trying to steal a break for our 5 at the time before the under 8 but it last 30 seconds longer so we handed them some points because Mabor got beat down low and we were playing 4 on 5 on offense. It’s only a couple of points but we give them away nearly every game when we don’t have them to give.

-like many have said our traps didn’t work for much of the game and lead to wide open 3s or layups. And that happens every game.
-we aren’t a great passing team. Most of the offense sticks in East’s hands and he dribbles for about 20 secs and we throw up a prayer.
 
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I'm curious if anyone can think of a coach who would coax a better record out of this particular group of players. I'm not being arch - maybe there is one.
I just think the talent level is really low. You can't have a frontcourt so soft that your point guard is regularly your leading rebounder. You can't have your two best players unable to help each other create offense, which I think is the case with East and Bates.
 
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Gates thought Honor and Carter would take the next step and replace Brown and Hodge. It didn’t happen Role players didn’t pan out and turn into stars. It happens. After Kobe turned the next step we all thought someone else would. It did not happen. So STFU until you can give gates a full four years of recruiting class and then see where we are at if we still suck by that time then yes it is time to move on but stop writing these post about getting rid of a coach after two effing years. If you don’t give a coach at least four years in the current setting then you were just hiring assistance to hopefully takeoff I don’t understand how dumb some of you people are

We largely agree. I've said the same things after many games this year. Not sure what about my post deserves a STFU. I have not one time said anybody should even consider firing him after this year and even said in this post he probably wouldn't be fired if he won 12 games next year. So I'm sorry you're mad Missouri sucks but don't tell me to shut the **** up because I'm covering them honestly and telling you they suck rather than blowing smoke up your ass. Hope your Sunday goes better than your Saturday did.
 
I'm curious if anyone can think of a coach who would coax a better record out of this particular group of players. I'm not being arch - maybe there is one.
I just think the talent level is really low. You can't have a frontcourt so soft that your point guard is regularly your leading rebounder. You can't have your two best players unable to help each other create offense, which I think is the case with East and Bates.

I don't think most people think the in game coaching is the problem (some do, but they're searching). The reason this team isn't very good is the offseason. Which is also on Gates, obviously. But, yes, the issue is largely that they have players that just aren't good enough.
 
Gates thought Honor and Carter would take the next step and replace Brown and Hodge. It didn’t happen Role players didn’t pan out and turn into stars. It happens. After Kobe turned the next step we all thought someone else would. It did not happen. So STFU until you can give gates a full four years of recruiting class and then see where we are at if we still suck by that time then yes it is time to move on but stop writing these post about getting rid of a coach after two effing years. If you don’t give a coach at least four years in the current setting then you were just hiring assistance to hopefully takeoff I don’t understand how dumb some of you people are
A full 4 years in basketball 😂
 
I think that changes a couple games and adds a couple wins but the way this team was constructed, we were going to struggle with them.

I think part of the issue was the way Gates came roaring out of the gate last year. He had such a good year that we thought the program was fully back when it wasn’t.

Now Gates has made some questionable additions for sure, but part of the issue is that his success right out of the Gate made folks expect more so quickly this year.

In part, he’s a victim of his own success.
The same people thinking that Tonje and Grill solve this teams issue are the same people that thought Conner Vanover was a game changer at the post position.

I’ve never seen so much cognitive dissonance than folks looking at last years portal cycle thinking it was going to work and attacking others for saying it wasn’t great.
 
The same people thinking that Tonje and Grill solve this teams issue are the same people that thought Conner Vanover was a game changer at the post position.

I’ve never seen so much cognitive dissonance than folks looking at last years portal cycle thinking it was going to work and attacking others for saying it wasn’t great.
The same ones are now saying they just need three impact players for next year from the portal so why would you worry? It’s just that easy
 
Play the young guys like Gabe and others alluded to. You’re going to need them to have that experience. They give you more energy than the older guys do as well. This season is not going anywhere and to not build for next year is a joke date of an opportunity
 
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I don't have enough in me for a full column. It's the exact same game we've watched five or six other times. Missouri hangs around. They aren't consistent enough to push out to a big lead, but they hang around within striking distance. But eventually they miss enough shots that they lose because they can't consistently get stops. They either give up made baskets or they foul on pretty much every possession. As Todd Golden said when you're in the lead, you can live with giving up twos because as long as you're converting pretty consistently on the other end, you're going to keep the lead. At least once a game Mizzou is good to give up a consequential second half run. They did it tonight after taking a 43-42 lead. After an 8-0 Florida run it was 50-43 and it just seems nearly impossible for this team to overcome that. They don't consistently do anything well enough.

*There's always a play that you see and think "That's the one." Tonight it was easy. Missouri was down three. Sean East had what appeared to be an open four foot shot. He didn''t take it. Missouri turned it over and Florida scored on the other end. Instead of a one point game, it was a five point game. And it felt like all the momentum was gone.

*Overall East was not good tonight. But he has been good this year. Everybody gets an off night. East and Tamar Bates are this team's two best players. But who's third? On some nights it can be Noah Carter. On some it can be Nick Honor. Sometimes it's Jesus Carralero-Martin (and yes, that's a scary thing). The point is, I don't know. I don't think they know. I don't think Dennis Gates knows. And that's a tough spot. I get all the complaints about the substitutions and rotations. I agree with a lot of them. But the point is, there's almost nothing Gates can count on. For every reason you can argue someone should play more, I can give you a point that guy should not play more. They've got two players. Tonight they had one.

*Tamar Bates had 36 points on 21 shots. Every other player combined had 31 points on 32 shots. That's 53.7% of the points coming from one player. I'd be willing to bet there's never been a game where one guy has had a higher percentage of the points. Missouri just had absolutely nothing else besides Bates tonight.

*I asked the players after the game if they could point to one or two things they think is preventing them from getting over the hump in these games or if it's something different every night. Honor said it's defensive rebounding. He said he feels like a lot of times they get a stop, but then the opponent gets a rebound and a three and it's just a crusher. Bates said they'll string together a couple of stops, but then on the third, they give something up and they just can't close out possessions or games lately. They said they're not that far off and honestly I agree with them. They seem somewhat close. But the only consistent thing about this team is that it can't make enough plays to turn close into actual success.

*Speaking of which, Noah Carter played 26 minutes and didn't have a single rebound. That simply can't ever happen.

*What do you do going forward? I would not play Connor Vanover at all. I would not play Mabor Majak ever. I would play Curt Lewis and Jesus Carralero-Martin little or never (again, I think Jesus is a good passer and gives you some things, but is he part of the future at all? No). Play Trent Pierce, Jordan Butler, Anthony Robinson more. Let Aidan Shaw play and sink or swim. I'm not saying you kill those guys' confidence if they don't have it, but I want to see what they have. Get them better. You continue to play East, Honor and Carter (though maybe a little less) because those guys gave a lot to this program last year and were part of a special season and they've earned minutes (and they're probably still three of your five or six best players on most nights). But the rest? Build for the future and accept some lumps along the way. There's no difference to me between 11-21 and 14-18. And that's really all we're probably talking about here. Missouri has lost home games to Jackson State, Georgia, South Carolina and Florida. None of those teams are better than mediocre. This season's not going anywhere worthwhile. It's time to make sure the guys you want back play enough to want to come back.

*You get to the end of this season, you figure out who can't help you next year and you tell them they get unlimited transfers for a reason. Then you add the five freshmen to whoever you decide is worth keeping around and you go out in the portal and you spend whatever you have to spend to get 2-3 difference makers to make sure that this year absolutely does not happen again. Because you can survive one 12-win season because you built some equity last year and you're recruiting at a really high level. But I'm not 100% sure you can survive two of them (you might be able to with your boss, but you're going to lose all the momentum you built with the fanbase). The next two months to be are about doing anything you can to make sure next year isn't a repeat of this one. And if you can pick up some wins along the way, cool.

*The last thing I'll say is this: Nothing Gates or the players say is going to be satisfactory right now. They're a bad team having a bad season and when that happens it doesn't matter what they say. Are his press conferences frustrating? Absolutely. And I could ask confrontational questions and get angry for you guys, but it's not going to change anything. They aren't going to suddenly say "You know what? You're right. Too many of our players suck." That's not how Gates operates. So we'll do our best to ask relevant questions. Some of them will be good enough for you guys, often times people will be on here saying we're soft and won't ask the "tough questions" whatever that means. But what they say doesn't matter. What they do to get this thing turned around and headed back in the right direction matters. And they can't do that in a press conference.

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I am willing to give Gates a pass on the year based on last years results- this years conference record if play doesn’t improve is going to be bottom 2 in the league bad and definitely a bad mark in his career —fortunately with the current transfer rules in place it can be corrected in a hurry next year— another down year and we can discuss Gates ability to continue over the long term— he needs to prove he can bring new people in and make a team immediately- his room for error is now gone
 
I agree with Gabe that it doesn't matter what we ask, or say, or rant about, It's not going to make these guys play better. They do need to play the younger guys more, who cares what the results are. The rest of the season is about what do you have for next year. We only have six returning scholarship players, Lewis, Bates, Shaw and the three freshmen. They should get a lot of minutes the rest of the way.
 
I haven't watched I'm 3 wee

Well if there's any bright side. I think Gates will try to land couple high profile portal guys. He got burned this year
He's gonna have to do better than try or next year will be meh again most likely. Hard to count on freshman and role player esque sophomores to carry you there.
 
In conference. Didn’t really think that needed to be specified, since conference record has been the topic of discussion this whole time.
Dennis Gates could lose every game for the rest of the season and he would not be in any danger of being fired, even if his buyout was $0. Didn't really think that needed to be specified.
 
Gates thought Honor and Carter would take the next step and replace Brown and Hodge. It didn’t happen Role players didn’t pan out and turn into stars. It happens. After Kobe turned the next step we all thought someone else would. It did not happen. So STFU until you can give gates a full four years of recruiting class and then see where we are at if we still suck by that time then yes it is time to move on but stop writing these post about getting rid of a coach after two effing years. If you don’t give a coach at least four years in the current setting then you were just hiring assistance to hopefully takeoff I don’t understand how dumb some of you people are
If you think Gates thought HONOR and CARTER were going to replace Kobe and Hodge.....well I'm not sure you're calling the right person dumb! Gates never expected that, Gates missed in the portal for those replacements. Nobody that's a serious person is calling for his job 🤣.
 
The positive at this point is the incoming class, but to avoid a repeat next year Gates will need to hit on 2-3 impact transfers because no way that youth can lead your team next season. The scary thing is he completely struck out in the portal coming off a 25 win season. Can we realistically expect him to hit home runs coming off a 10 win season? Everything he touched last year turned to gold, everything he’s touched since the Princeton game has turned to shit.
 
I don't think most people think the in game coaching is the problem (some do, but they're searching). The reason this team isn't very good is the offseason. Which is also on Gates, obviously. But, yes, the issue is largely that they have players that just aren't good enough.
The players last year were good enough and defense and rebounding was still awful. Gates has never put a good defensive team on the court in his HC career. It’s a trend.
 
Been saying the same thing after the South Carolina game. Play the kids, see what you got so you can find the right pieces in the portal.
I am totally surprised how bad Vanover is. Did think it was possible.
 
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I mean there’s a really good chance he has the worst season anyone not named Kim Anderson has in our lifetimes. It absolutely can’t happen again

The Jackson State loss is literally the worst loss ever at Mizzou Arena. This team would lose to several Kim Anderson teams.
 
I agree 100%. Seems pretty clear he missed on the big names he know he needed in the portal. The rotations are bad but I think that is mostly on the lack of having any impactful talent. He went shopping for steak, came back with rump roast, and now we are wondering why we aren’t getting a nice filet. It cause he didn’t get it
Rump Roast is great if you know how to cook it.
 
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Laughing my ass off at some of you. How many of you wanted to fire Drink after a year and a half? After 3 years he was basically Odom. It took him 4 years to have a winning record. He had one good year out of 4, Gates has one good year out of 2. And yes, Drink has got players out of the portal that didn't play well to.

Let's see how this plays out next two years with Gates. We are losing the players you all seem to hate, Honor, Carter, Vanover, Majak, probably Jesus and Brown, addition by subtraction. We have a really good class coming in and a great start to 2025 class. @GabeD has said he doesn't think NIL is an issue, so not sure why Cleveland or Shedrick didn't come here, Gates wanted them, maybe it was closer to home, girl friend, liked another coach better, handler, who knows but it doesn't sound like he just passed on them and decided Vanover was better. Gates is learning what it takes to compete in P5 basketball just like Drink did, I think he will have a better handle on it this time around.

I wonder if some of you ever played sports or coached sports?
If so you must have been the best player on your teams, never had a bad year playing or injuries, never lost a game coaching.
 
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Been saying the same thing after the South Carolina game. Play the kids, see what you got so you can find the right pieces in the portal.
I am totally surprised how bad Vanover is. Did think it was possible.

I never thought Vanover would be dominant, or even replicate his stats from Oral Roberts, but he's really regressed. His numbers were better across the board at Arkansas in '20-'21.
 
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Laughing my ass off at some of you. How many of you wanted to fire Drink after a year and a half? After 3 years he was basically Odom. It took him 4 years to have a winning record. He had one good year out of 4, Gates has one good year out of 2. And yes, Drink has got players out of the portal that didn't play well to.

Let's see how this plays out next two years with Gates. We are losing the players you all seem to hate, Honor, Carter, Vanover, Majak, probably Jesus and Brown, addition by subtraction. We have a really good class coming in and a great start to 2025 class. @GabeD has said he doesn't think NIL is an issue, so not sure why Cleveland or Shedrick didn't come here, Gates wanted them, maybe it was closer to home, girl friend, liked another coach better, handler, who knows but it doesn't sound like he just passed on them and decided Vanover was better. Gates is learning what it takes to compete in P5 basketball just like Drink did, I think he will have a better handle on it this time around.

I wonder if some of you ever played sports or coached sports?
If so you must have been the best player on your teams, never had a bad year playing or injuries, never lost a game coaching.
Could you point out where Drink finished multiple games under .500 in the regular season? That’s ignoring the fact that football and basketball aren’t even remotely similar in building a program
 
We largely agree. I've said the same things after many games this year. Not sure what about my post deserves a STFU. I have not one time said anybody should even consider firing him after this year and even said in this post he probably wouldn't be fired if he won 12 games next year. So I'm sorry you're mad Missouri sucks but don't tell me to shut the **** up because I'm covering them honestly and telling you they suck rather than blowing smoke up your ass. Hope your Sunday goes better than your Saturday did.
STFU was not directed at you. Just tired of the new era of people saying we need to fire coaches after one bad year. And I was feeling pretty good last night. In Vegas
 
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