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TEN (ACTUALLY ELEVEN) MONDAY MORNING THOUGHTS ON MIZZOU

GabeD

PowerMizzou.com Publisher
Aug 1, 2003
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Columbia, MO
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No reading or listening recs this week. Got a lot of Mizzou stuff.

1. Let's boil yesterday down to what's really going to happen: Barry Odom is going to get either an extension or a new deal from Missouri. He wants to be here, they want him here, the two sides will work something out. Anybody putting too much more energy into this whole thing than that is wasting energy. There's only one scenario in which Odom is coaching anywhere else next year. If Jim Sterk tells him, "You've got a contract, deal with it" and he has an opportunity to walk, he'll walk. But Sterk isn't going to say that.

2. So what about the timing? The thing to remember here is that all of this has 29 levels of red tape to go through. I can confidently say talks are taking place. Before it can officially be announced, it's got to be approved by the Curators and all that. So that might take a little bit. But it will be done before that. I wouldn't be surprised if it was done this week. I'll say this: I bet, at least privately, that Barry Odom has a new deal with Missouri before Louisville has a football coach. These things usually leak out because somebody from one side or the other will quietly whisper to someone that a deal is done and that will make its way to a reporter and the news will break before it's official. I don't know if that happens this week or not. But I bet it happens by the end of next week.

3. I don't really get the objections of giving him a little bit more money/security. First off, it's not YOUR money (or mine) really. I mean, I guess tangentially some of it is yours if you donate to TSF or buy season tickets, but I don't think most people are going to say "I'm not donating my $200 if you give it to Barry Odom." Second, what Missouri SHOULD be according to revenue, support, salaries, etc, is the 13th best football program in a 14 team league. They're better than that. Nobody is saying you pay Odom like Nick Saban. Just give him a little more security and backing. He's produced results that are actually above what the support and finances say he should. So send the message that he's your guy, everybody's happy and this whole thing is over.

4. There is a Missouri side to this too. And that side is how much money is really there to give him? I'm not sure. Attendance and revenue are down and that's an issue. I don't really believe it's a Barry Odom issue as I've said before (yeah he could be more rah-rah, but I don't think that's going to sell a ton more season tickets and I don't think people are suddenly going to start buying tickets in bulk if you have someone else as the head coach). Winning is going to sell season tickets. All he can control is the product on the field. As Ben Frederickson wrote on Saturday, you hired Odom to be the football coach, not the Chief Marketing Officer. His best way to market is to win games. He did that this year. Maybe not quite as many as you'd like, but certainly more than many thought and enough to have shown tangible progress. From Mizzou's side, I could see an incentive laden type offer. A small bump in pay and staff pay, a couple extra years added on with escalators for certain numbers of wins, bowl bids, top 25 rankings, attendance etc. Hell, I saw that Randy Edsall's deal at Connecticut gave him a 2,000 bonus in every game in which UCONN had a better third down conversion percentage than the opponent (seriously) so there are ways to get him money beyond the rock solid guarantees.

5. Odom will have his last chance to pitch Kelly Bryant today. Arkansas is in on Thursday and he visits Auburn this weekend. My information is that Mississippi State and North Carolina are out. This is mostly between Missouri and Auburn. I won't completely write Arkansas off. But if he goes to Arkansas, he was always going to Arkansas and nobody else ever had a chance because they weren't Chad Morris. Missouri has a lot to sell. Auburn is Auburn. I won't be surprised by either choice. Honestly, I will be surprised if it's Arkansas, but as I said, if it is, there was nothing that was going to change that.

6. Getting Bryant would obviously be big. If they do that, I'll pick Missouri to win ten games next year. On that front, let's take a look at the toughest things for Missouri to replace next season:

1) Drew Lock. Obviously. He's a top 10 QB in the country. Those aren't easy to find.
2) Terez Hall. The guy was all over the place and he's a hell of a leader. Biggest loss on the defensive side of the ball in my opinion.
3) Emanuel Hall. Many would have him higher. But I think a lot of the variance with him off the field had to do with Lock. He just had such a comfort level with Hall that when Hall wasn't there, his play suffered. A new quarterback won't have that. Replacing him isn't easy, but that's why I have him third.
4) Paul Adams. He might not have been quite as good this year as he was last year, but he was still a very reliable right tackle and a leader in the locker room. I think Larry Borom gets first shot to replace him. The staff likes him...but he's never done it.
5) Terry Beckner. Many will be stunned he's this low on the list. There are two reasons. I thought Beckner was hot and cold. He was great sometimes, but he was invisible sometimes. Second, I think Jordan Elliott has a chance to end up as a better player than Beckner by the end of his career.
 
7. How hard is it to replace Lock? That's a big question. It's tough, no doubt. But I've had some people tell me that while he's not a better quarterback, Kelly Bryant might actually be a better fit for a college offense...especially one that is bringing back four very good tailbacks. Adding Bryant's legs, you'd have a team that might have a chance to lead the SEC in rushing next season if it's just good enough throwing the ball to keep the opposition somewhat honest. One thing I find odd is how many people are saying right now "Let's see Odom prove he can win without Lock." I'd be willing to bet six weeks ago a good number of those same people were calling Lock overrated and were ready for him to move on. I don't think that was fair...but I don't think it's fair to say Odom only won games because of Lock either.

8. I was surprised at the end of the year looking at the defensive numbers. Missouri was 49th in the country in scoring and 56th in total defense and that's with three elite offenses (Purdue, Bama and Georgia were all in the top 23 in total offense) on the schedule. It wasn't a great defense, but it wasn't as awful as many of us thought it was. It's amazing what holding on to the ball for 30 minutes a game can do for your defense. Credit Derek Dooley for that. But don't take credit away from Josh Heupel either. In his two years in Columbia, he 100% did everything he was hired to do. He rebuilt Drew Lock's confidence and he took one of the worst offenses in the country to one of the best offenses in the country in a matter of two years. He did a very good job and set the table for Derek Dooley, who did a very good job.

9. Let's talk bowl games. The way this works is that each school (beyond the NY6 games) will submit their top three choices to the league, in order of preference. The league will then work with the schools and the bowls to get the best overall package in the pool of six.

Missouri's choices, in order, will be Gator, Music City, Liberty (they could throw Outback in there, but I just don't think there's any way possible Missouri goes to the Outback at this point).

There are two scenarios in play (I've got South Carolina going to the Belk regardless):

Scenario A: Both LSU and Florida get NY6 bowls. It's possible. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible. If that happens, Kentucky probably gets the Citrus and A&M the Outback (word is the Aggies want a Florida bowl). That would put Mizzou in the Gator because Mississippi State played there last year. The Music City then chooses between Mississippi State and Auburn and the Texas Bowl takes the other with Vandy going to the Liberty Bowl.

Scenario B: Either LSU or Florida is left out of the NY6. In that case, that team goes to the Citrus. The Outback could then choose Kentucky or A&M. I think that will be the top choice for both schools. The other could then get the Taxslayer. In that case, I think the Music City takes Mizzou and Mississippi State goes to the Texas Bowl (MSU isn't far from Houston and would travel well). If the Music City were to take MSU, it would put Auburn in Texas and Mizzou in the Liberty with Vandy falling to the Independence Bowl.

In conclusion: If LSU and Florida are both in NY6 bowls, I think Missouri goes to Jacksonville. If not, I think they go to Nashville, though Memphis isn't out of the question.

10. I'll be interested to see if there's any staff shakeup for Missouri in the offseason. A lot of people have speculated about Andy Hill and I think that's fair. But if I had to guess today, I think he's back. You're not going to fire the guy. He's got another year left on his contract. Certainly special teams were bad this year, but you have to have some hope that it can get better. Hill is an institution at Mizzou. I don't think you're hamstringing the program or anything by giving him another year.

Other than him, Dooley is a guy to watch. Will a mid-major type program come in and offer him a head coaching job? Let's say a smaller job in Texas opens up or Bill Clark gets hired away from UAB or Matt Wells from Utah State. Would Dooley be on their radar? And would he take it? I don't know the answer to either of those questions, but they're worth considering. I don't think he would leave to be an OC somewhere, but I can't say for sure. What if Auburn or someone like that came and offered him 1.3 million? Not sure what would happen. If I had to bet today, I think Dooley is back (especially if Missouri lands Bryant) but I think it's at least worth montoring.

Guys like Brad Davis and Vernon Hargreaves are worth watching. Joe Jon Finley will probably be on some radars to be an OC, or maybe even a lower level head coach. Staff turnover is common in college football. It would probably be more surprising if every single guy returned than if one or two of them left.

11. We'll finish up with hoops. I know some are starving for basketball news and we're going to get into basketball mode now. We get to talk to Cuonzo Martin this afternoon. It's the first chance we've had to talk to him in two weeks, since before the team left for the Paradise Jam. The Tigers have a tough home game with Temple tomorrow night. The Owls beat Georgia earlier this year. I haven't seen a line on it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Temple was favored. Sunday brings UCF to town. I think a realistic goal is splitting those games, then beating UT-Arlington and Oral Roberts, which would put Missouri 6-3 as it gets ready for Xavier and Illinois. Split those and take care of Morehead State and you have an 8-4 non-conference record. Not great but not terrible. As I said, the hoops stuff will pick up starting tomorrow for those who have been waiting.
 
what do you expect Odom's buyout $ to be once the deal gets done? You see the Kingsbury situation down at Text Tech and it is easy to see why Odom is not happy with such a low buyout. One bad season and the HC gets fired because the buyout is so low (I think Kingsbury was about $2 million). Then the AD comes out and says his school will become elite again. And I think the comp is about right- Leach took Tech to heights never seen and raised expectations, much like Pinkel.
 
Our current list of commits looks like a Pinkel class in late November...a few kids from Missouri, a few under-rated guys from Texas and a few holes left to fill.

That recipe can win in the Big 12, it won in the SEC just a few years ago...which is why I'm not ready to start over with a new coach as long as BO's salary demands are reasonable. If he is asking for $5M per year or similar, that is a different story and nobody is advocating for that.
 
Odoms contract should be bumbed to $3.05M/year. Buyout bumped to $1M/year.

The $3.05M/year will put him 10th in the league and he will be above Luke, Mason and Moorehead as he should.

He would be just under Muschamp and Ogeron.
 
Why would Brad Davis and Vernon Hargreaves be worth watching? Is it because they would be hot commodities or is it because HCBO was not happy with their coaching? Please explain.

Wouldn't it make sense to eliminate one of the LB coaching positions, eliminate the ST position and then hire a QB coach and another DB coach? Would reduce the workload on Dooley and Walters.
 
Pure guess, but I don't see Dooley leaving this year. He has (at least) 2 kids that in the early high school level. He took at bad job before (LaTech, not UT). He has been through the head coaching game before, and won't just jump at just any opportunity to be a HC again.

I think Dooley will sit tight in his job in CoMo for at least next year and maybe longer. Build up his brand. Let his kids get through high school. Then when he is coveted as a HC, jump to a Big 6 type of HC job to his liking.
 
Odoms contract should be bumbed to $3.05M/year. Buyout bumped to $1M/year.

The $3.05M/year will put him 10th in the league and he will be above Luke, Mason and Moorehead as he should.

He would be just under Muschamp and Ogeron.

Push back on that is the buyout would still be super low. Why would he accept that? He just won 8 games- that doesn’t happen at Mizzou very often. At some point, he won’t play this game and will find another job.

A buy out $ costs you nothing unless you fire him- that is the ultimate measure of backing/confidence you give a coach. I understand salary limitations due to financials at Mizzou.
 
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nightmare scenario..bryant and dooley both end up at Auburn..and we cant find an OC...it was hard enough with a returning QB...yikes...not gonna happen but always have to be prepared..lol
 
On Dooley, I'm pretty sure his contract stipulates he'd owe Mizzou 6 months salary ($450k) if he left for another OC job or any job in SEC.

That's obviously doable for a place like Auburn, but still a factor. Would basically mean they're giving him $3M+ for 2 yrs guaranteed vs $2.6M.

No buyout for him if he takes HC job. But either way would be very surprised if he left this year.
 
Why would Brad Davis and Vernon Hargreaves be worth watching? Is it because they would be hot commodities or is it because HCBO was not happy with their coaching? Please explain.

Wouldn't it make sense to eliminate one of the LB coaching positions, eliminate the ST position and then hire a QB coach and another DB coach? Would reduce the workload on Dooley and Walters.

Because they have no natural connections to Mizzou and assistants move all the time
 
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Great point made about Heupel. I think some people forget how inept the offense was when he took it over. That said, I like Dooley's offensive system & approach going forward, especially based on our personnel we have returning
 
Odoms contract should be bumbed to $3.05M/year. Buyout bumped to $1M/year.

The $3.05M/year will put him 10th in the league and he will be above Luke, Mason and Moorehead as he should.

He would be just under Muschamp and Ogeron.
10th in salary? Are we the 10th best team in the SEC? I'm not sure why everyone is trying to go so cheap on BO. The guy is now a seasoned coach in the SEC with a very good resume. We need to pay him as such. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.5 million with an adequate buyout should be enough. It is going to be a lot cheaper and less of a gamble to keep BO instead of trying to replace him.
 
Great point made about Heupel. I think some people forget how inept the offense was when he took it over. That said, I like Dooley's offensive system & approach going forward, especially based on our personnel we have returning
Yep. Heupel's scheme, while limited, was good choice given the talent-level (especially on OL) after 2015. AND last year was ideal time to move on to something more diverse that gave us a better chance to challenge & compete against top SEC defenses
 
Pure guess, but I don't see Dooley leaving this year. He has (at least) 2 kids that in the early high school level. He took at bad job before (LaTech, not UT). He has been through the head coaching game before, and won't just jump at just any opportunity to be a HC again.

I think Dooley will sit tight in his job in CoMo for at least next year and maybe longer. Build up his brand. Let his kids get through high school. Then when he is coveted as a HC, jump to a Big 6 type of HC job to his liking.
I don’t disagree with you but Dooleys family started in Texas and he has an apartment here. Taking a new job will not be impacted by his family position. If he goes to directional Louisiana again the family will stay in Texas.
 
10th in salary? Are we the 10th best team in the SEC? I'm not sure why everyone is trying to go so cheap on BO. The guy is now a seasoned coach in the SEC with a very good resume. We need to pay him as such. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.5 million with an adequate buyout should be enough. It is going to be a lot cheaper and less of a gamble to keep BO instead of trying to replace him.
And he is head and shoulders above Muschapmp as a head coach IMO
 
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10th in salary? Are we the 10th best team in the SEC? I'm not sure why everyone is trying to go so cheap on BO. The guy is now a seasoned coach in the SEC with a very good resume. We need to pay him as such. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.5 million with an adequate buyout should be enough. It is going to be a lot cheaper and less of a gamble to keep BO instead of trying to replace him.
I agree with this. If I were Odom I'd find a $1.0m buyout ( as proposed above) to be insulting.
 
Push back on that is the buyout would still be super low. Why would he accept that? He just won 8 games- that doesn’t happen at Mizzou very often. At some point, he won’t play this game and will find another job.

A buy out $ costs you nothing unless you fire him- that is the ultimate measure of backing/confidence you give a coach. I understand salary limitations due to financials at Mizzou.


I don't understand the desire to parse details when nobody on this board

1) what Odom really wants
2) where MU wants to be

That being said I don't believe they completely re do his contract

I see two years added....

Some bump in base;

A considerable bump in incentive pay with reasonably attainable goals;

A bump in buyout (consider by adding two years the amount goes up);

An increase in his pool for coaches;

An agreement (if it does not already exists) to revisit in a year

Measuring what the SEC pays is foolish imo If a school really wants Odom then they'll pay....

And also consider this;

I'm not diminishing results....but if you pay handsomely for an 8 win season what will MU pay for a division title?

Let's put aside the potential for less favorable results

Unlike Pinkel and his increases MU is not flush or operating in the black

Failure to realize attendance has to improve (and I believe Odom does) could put MU in an untenable position

I am convinced that this has been a non issue between the parties and that both guys will cone to an agreement

r egardless what fans think the pieces should be
 
Our current list of commits looks like a Pinkel class in late November...a few kids from Missouri, a few under-rated guys from Texas and a few holes left to fill.

That recipe can win in the Big 12, it won in the SEC just a few years ago...which is why I'm not ready to start over with a new coach as long as BO's salary demands are reasonable. If he is asking for $5M per year or similar, that is a different story and nobody is advocating for that.
$4.9 million for 5 more years looks about right.
 
@GabeD My memory may be off... That being said, I thought I recalled a contract with Dooley with a three year commitment on both sides. Is there something in place like that with Dooley or am I off base here? Also, Is Dooley's current salary at $1 million/year here?
 
I'm not diminishing results....but if you pay handsomely for an 8 win season what will MU pay for a division title?

I don't disagree with anything you said, but paying handsomely for 8 wins means bumping salary to 3-3.5M. Start winning titles and that jumps again...it's not like anyone is advocating for $5M+ right now.
 
agree with you on Beckner great kid overcame a lot but not sure we miss him a ton next year. I still contend Odom is an avg game coach but the one area I have no concerns with him is getting players in that will compete hard for him.
 
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1. Pay Odom.

2. We're going to miss Drew for a lot of reasons no matter who we get. He could make throws very few can. His arm was so dangerous it made our running game that much better.

3. Agree about Terez Hall.

4. Our defense got better as the season went on. Odom has made our run defense as good as it's ever been. But it was our secondary and pass rush that really improved as the season went on.

5. If we can even hold serve with our end of year offense/defense and improve special teams next year is going to be fun especially with the easier schedule.
 
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If LSU doesn’t get in the NY6 (and honestly, I think LSU sand Florida both wind up in the top 12, especially if Texas loses), there’s no way they go to the Citrus. They’ve been there the past two years. So that would probably mean Kentucky or aTm for the Citrus. Don’t think that changes much for Mizzou either way, though.
 
I still contend Odom is an avg game coach

I am not disagreeing.....but I think the same was said about Gary Pinkel, and is still said about Nick Saban.

Truthfully, not sure what a great game coach looks like. They all make decisions that do not work and when they don't, it costs them games.

How dumb was Saban to try for that field goal in 2013...and not think about a possible return?

Remember Les Miles and his clock management skills...or lack thereof?

I just think we are more aware of Odom's dumb calls...the one's that did not work.....because that is our team and we watch every play of every game.

I have a strong suspicion that virtually every fan of every team thinks their coach is just an average game day coach.

Coaching is much more about recruiting and what you do on every day other than game day....and the jury is still out on Odom in that regard...in my opinion...but he still needs a raise and an extension or else you keep him from doing what he needs to do.
 
#1. Sterk to Odom: You have a contract that is reflective of your accomplishments and we expect you to honor the contract. By the way, if you choose to leave, be sure to settle your bill regarding the Arkansas tickets.

Sterk should not be negotiating with Odom from a position of weakness.
 
@GabeD My memory may be off... That being said, I thought I recalled a contract with Dooley with a three year commitment on both sides. Is there something in place like that with Dooley or am I off base here? Also, Is Dooley's current salary at $1 million/year here?
3-year contract technically, but basically Mizzou would owe him a year's salary ($900k) if he was fired.
He'd owe Mizzou 6 months salary ($450k) if he left for another OC job or any SEC job. (Latter part is only if he left this year think, but not certain).
 
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3-year contract technically, but basically Mizzou would owe him a year's salary ($900k) if he was fired.
He'd owe Mizzou 6 months salary ($450k) if he left for another OC job or any SEC job. (Latter part is only if he left this year think, but not certain).
@TitoNW Thank you for clarifying that for me. Sounds like we should be safe for this year anyway with Dooley. Give the whole coaching pool a raise as well... Finley and Haley are due for a raise with what they have brought into the program as well...
 
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Any thoughts on Austyn Carta-Samuels? Seems he was very tight with Lock. I think I saw he was on a 30 under 30 coaching list somewhere. Likelihood he bolts for a real coaching position? Any chance he becomes the QB coach here?
 
#9. LSU really screwed up their bowl season, and Mizzou’s, with their ridiculous 7 OT loss to A&M.
 
Why would Brad Davis and Vernon Hargreaves be worth watching? Is it because they would be hot commodities or is it because HCBO was not happy with their coaching? Please explain.

Wouldn't it make sense to eliminate one of the LB coaching positions, eliminate the ST position and then hire a QB coach and another DB coach? Would reduce the workload on Dooley and Walters.


Davis and Hargraeves will enter the second year of their two year contracts

They likely signed because 1) a one year deal was low 2) security in the early years of a new coach

If Odom gets a new deal the salary pool has to be adequate to support them. Also they may want to continue multi year deals

Both are important for recruiting imo
 
#1. Sterk to Odom: You have a contract that is reflective of your accomplishments and we expect you to honor the contract. By the way, if you choose to leave, be sure to settle your bill regarding the Arkansas tickets.

Sterk should not be negotiating with Odom from a position of weakness.
Yeah, Odom is the worst coach in the SEC.

Give me a break.
 
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I don’t disagree with you but Dooleys family started in Texas and he has an apartment here. Taking a new job will not be impacted by his family position. If he goes to directional Louisiana again the family will stay in Texas.

Texas State is open and they didn't talk to Dooley

It looks like Kendal Briles to San Marcos


Good mid major in a great University town
 
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