BASKETBALL POST-GAME THOUGHTS: MIZZOU 82, LINDENWOOD 53
- By GabeD
- The Tiger Walk
- 32 Replies
*Let's be real: We weren't gonna learn a lot from this game.
*We did learn Ben Sternberg can drain it from midcourt. I don't know if that's something Dennis Gates is going to draw up on a consistent basis, but it's there if they need it.
*That said, nice to see that Missouri isn't going to give up 80 to every team it plays. Lindenwood only scored 53 and went 5-22 from three-point range. Not that you'd expect them to score a ton and there was definitely an element of unusual hot shooting from the Tigers' first two opponents, but still, good to see.
*Mizzou still shot too many threes itself for my taste, but it is good to see them dominate appropriately down low. The Tigers had 48 points in the paint and made 26 of 36 shots from inside the three-point line.
*Kobe Brown and Noah Carter will be two of Missouri's top three scores and quite likely the top two. Carter is a better jump shooter, though Brown does look to be a bit improved in that regard. That's one of the more complete games Kobe has played. 15 points, 9 rebounds and most notably 6 assists. You'll take that line from him all the time.
*Nick Honor is the point guard. Period. He shoots more than I thought he would, though that might change as we get further down the road and the competition increases. But he's the guy that's going to be running the show in important moments. Part of that is because...
*The two guys that I think are pressing a little bit right now are Sean East and Isiaih Mosley. They're certainly both talented enough, but I think both are probably learning to play a little bit when scoring might not be the first thing they're asked to do. Mosley is a gifted passer and he did have three assists. But he also had four turnovers. East matched him. Those two had eight of Mizzou's 16 turnovers by themselves. That's a number you want to see come down. However, at least Mosley got on the court and seems to be a good teammate and we can move past that discussion.
*Still, 16 turnovers is compared to 22 assists. The Tigers had an assist on 2/3 of their made field goals. This is a really, really good passing team. There are times even when it looks like they're passing a little too much--Carter passed up an open three at the end of the first half. You'd rather have that issue than not passing enough and I don't mean to say it as a criticism. There are a lot of very skilled passers on this team.
*Overall, good to have an easy one. They've had three they had to win and they've won them all. Four more to go, starting with SIU-Edwardsville on Tuesday night. @drewking0222 will have more coverage of this one after post-game interviews.
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*We did learn Ben Sternberg can drain it from midcourt. I don't know if that's something Dennis Gates is going to draw up on a consistent basis, but it's there if they need it.
*That said, nice to see that Missouri isn't going to give up 80 to every team it plays. Lindenwood only scored 53 and went 5-22 from three-point range. Not that you'd expect them to score a ton and there was definitely an element of unusual hot shooting from the Tigers' first two opponents, but still, good to see.
*Mizzou still shot too many threes itself for my taste, but it is good to see them dominate appropriately down low. The Tigers had 48 points in the paint and made 26 of 36 shots from inside the three-point line.
*Kobe Brown and Noah Carter will be two of Missouri's top three scores and quite likely the top two. Carter is a better jump shooter, though Brown does look to be a bit improved in that regard. That's one of the more complete games Kobe has played. 15 points, 9 rebounds and most notably 6 assists. You'll take that line from him all the time.
*Nick Honor is the point guard. Period. He shoots more than I thought he would, though that might change as we get further down the road and the competition increases. But he's the guy that's going to be running the show in important moments. Part of that is because...
*The two guys that I think are pressing a little bit right now are Sean East and Isiaih Mosley. They're certainly both talented enough, but I think both are probably learning to play a little bit when scoring might not be the first thing they're asked to do. Mosley is a gifted passer and he did have three assists. But he also had four turnovers. East matched him. Those two had eight of Mizzou's 16 turnovers by themselves. That's a number you want to see come down. However, at least Mosley got on the court and seems to be a good teammate and we can move past that discussion.
*Still, 16 turnovers is compared to 22 assists. The Tigers had an assist on 2/3 of their made field goals. This is a really, really good passing team. There are times even when it looks like they're passing a little too much--Carter passed up an open three at the end of the first half. You'd rather have that issue than not passing enough and I don't mean to say it as a criticism. There are a lot of very skilled passers on this team.
*Overall, good to have an easy one. They've had three they had to win and they've won them all. Four more to go, starting with SIU-Edwardsville on Tuesday night. @drewking0222 will have more coverage of this one after post-game interviews.
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NEW STORY COMMENTARY: SAM HORN IS THE FUTURE, BUT IS HE THE PRESENT?
- By GabeD
- The Tiger Walk
- 86 Replies
I'm not arguing against a quarterback change. I just don't know if it would fix anything. My column after a game where we were supposed to get a glimpse of the future, but instead got more of the same
missouri.rivals.com
PowerMizzou - Commentary: Sam Horn is the future, but is he the present?
The fans want a QB change. Will it happen? Would it help? We dive into the issue.
missouri.rivals.com
NEW STORY TEN THOUGHTS ON MIZZOU'S 66-24 LOSS TO TENNESSEE
- By GabeD
- The Tiger Walk
- 156 Replies
1) Missouri officially has a Tennessee problem. Yeah, I know, so does almost everybody else in college football. I get it. This isn't as much about this year or this game as it is the general trend. Mizzou won five of its first seven against the Vols as members of the SEC. Tennessee was down and Mizzou kept kicking the Vols on the ground and were a big reason they stayed there. In 2017 and 2018 Missouri popped Tennessee with back to back 50-17 humiliations. Tennessee then beat the Tigers 24-20 in 2019. In the three years since, the Vols have outscored Missouri 163-60. None of the games has been in doubt by the end of the third quarter. Tennessee has done virtually anything it wanted in those games. Georgia was always out of reach for Missouri (on a consistent basis anyway). But the Tigers don't really look to be any closer to the Vols now. The goal needs to be to catch Kentucky and Florida. And then worry about anything beyond that.
2) Today was a master class from Josh Heupel. Yes, Tennessee has better players. But the Vols did anything they wanted to. Back up and give them cushion, we'll go down the field 12 yards at a time. Come up and press, we'll throw it over the top. Oh, by the way, we're also going to run all over you. Like I said, they have good players. But that much better? A lot of today was about scheme. In fact, a lot of Tennessee's season has been about scheme. It's time to give Heupel his due as an offensive master. Because he has done it everywhere. The only places you could say he's "failed" have been because those teams have had bad defenses. That's not his fault.
3) As Jarod Hamilton wrote, this wasn't just a bad day for the Missouri defense, it was an historic day. The Tigers gave up 750 yards to Oklahoma in 1986. That was a 77-0 loss which was thereafter referred to as the Norman Conquest. Tennessee came up 26 yards short of tying that mark. The Vols had 33 first downs, six short of the most Mizzou has ever given up. The Tigers last gave up at least 66 points on November 20, 1999. It was the last game Larry Smith coached in his next to last season at Mizzou. The last time they lost by more than 42 was Dec 1 2001, the final game of Gary Pinkel's first season in a game against Michigan State that was made up after being canceled on September 11.
4) So how much do we have to reexamine the Missouri defense? Yes, they're better than they were today. But are they not as good as they've been most of the year? I don't think that's fair. I think today is more about Tennessee than it is about Missouri. That said, you do have to admit the success has been a little bit schedule driven. The Tigers' schedule has featured teams with the following total offense ranks: FCS, 105, 97, 90, 79, 62, 40. In other words, 1/2 their games have been against either an FCS team or a team that ranks in the bottom third of total offense in FBS. Again, I think Missouri has a good defense. I think it also has benefitted a little bit from the schedule it has faced.
5) Over on offense, Missouri was better than it has been but it was...fine. Missouri scored 24 points. That is one point better than its season average. Missouri had 389 total yards. That is 39 yards better than its season average. The Tigers had 16 first downs and were 5/17 on third down. We've reached the point where we deem the bare minimum standard of a competent Division One offense as successful. As I said on our postgame show, it's like winning the most improved award. It's great that you got better, but it generally means you were so bad at the beginning that nobody ever thought you were even going to be functional. Missouri's offense was functional today. It really wasn't a whole lot more than that.
6) Find someone that talks about you the way Rick Neuheisel talks about Brady Cook. If he grew today as much as Neuheisel said he grew, Missouri's quarterback is now 17 feet tall. Again, he was decent. He completed 59% of his passes. That would rank 86th in the country for the season. He threw for 217 yards. That would rank 69th. He averaged 6.8 yards per attempt. That would be 84th. He ran well. He did not turn the ball over, which meant he was better than quite a few games this year. But this is the problem: That might have been the best quarterback game of the year and it was somewhere around average. I understand this is how this team has to win. And this offensive effort would have beaten South Carolina or Vandy or maybe even Auburn and Kentucky. But it wasn't going to beat Tennessee and when Missouri played those other teams, it only got a similar effort once. Today might seem like the wrong day to pile on Cook and I'm not trying to do that. I think he played a solid game. I do not think Missouri found its quarterback of the future as Skippy tried to tell me it did so many times.
7) I wrote a column about where this program is. Some of you may very well believe there is undeniable proof that this program is moving forward. I am going to tell you here why I am skeptical that is true (and, no, it's not because I dislike Drinkwitz personally or have anything against him). Mizzou has the same record in Eli Drinkwitz's first 33 games as it did in Barry Odom's first 33 games. In SEC games only, Drinkwitz is one game worse through his first 25 than Odom was in his first 25. In his first three years, Drinkwitz will have two wins over SEC teams that finish the season with an overall winning record if South Carolina wins one of its remaining three games, which is certainly questionable (Tennessee, Clemson, bowl game). The best win so far is either an LSU team that finished 5-5 or last year's South Carolina team that finished 7-6. That's it. There's not another win over a Power Five team with a winning record. While he is 10-15 in SEC play, he is 6-0 against South Carolina and Vanderbilt. He is 4-15 against everyone else. So that's why I'm skeptical.
8) But recruiting. I know. I know. That's what the optimistic crowd is banking on. That the lofty ranking in mid-December means there is more help on the way. And there might be. Earlier this week, I posted a couple of tweets that showed how many snaps true freshmen had played for every team in the league. Missouri had the fourth fewest. All but 11 of those snaps have come from Armand Membou, Mekhi Miller and Luther Burden. In other words, Missouri is playing more experienced players than a lot of teams. And the freshmen should grow and be better players in a year or two than they are right now. That's the hope. They have to be. Because right now, they aren't good enough to play for a bad team. Again, I understand this does not mean they are bad players or busts. I am not saying they are. I am saying that we don't yet know they are good players. And that's part of the problem with this season. I think 5-7 or 6-6 would have been a lot easier to stomach if you had been offered a glimpse of the future and it had made you feel good. We have not been offered that glimpse. So right now, we are being asked to put a whole lot of stock in the idea that the recruiting sites are right about this roster.
9) Nowhere is that more true than quarterback. At this point, Drinkwitz just seems to refuse to play a second QB until he has no other choice. Which is kind of strange because he legitimately did it in the second game he coached here. But he hasn't done it since. I'm not saying Brady Cook shouldn't be the starter or should be benched. Not at all. I'm saying in a game that's 59-24 in the fourth quarter, what would it hurt to give someone else a series? Even if it's Jack Abraham? Because what happens if Cook gets injured? We have absolutely no idea if there's anybody who can go in and do anything at all. Tennessee's backup got in for two series today. The game was over. Maybe Missouri's backup could have gotten sweaty too.
10) I saved this for last because I think most of the board will disagree with me. I have no problem with Josh Heupel throwing deep in the final minutes and hanging 66 on Missouri. Heupel's team still has a chance to make the College Football Playoff. But its schedule offers no help. Tennessee plays three of the four worst teams in the SEC (what's up Texas A&M?) over the last three weeks. They don't just have to win, they have to win BIG. It's a big reason I said coming in that if Heupel could hang 80 on Missouri, he'd do it. Also, the remarks Drinkwitz made this summer were noticed in Knoxville and they have not been forgotten. I don't think he meant them as an insult to Tennessee, but they kind of came off that way and I'm sure they were taken that way by the Vols. Finally, Missouri could have, you know, actually made a play and stopped somebody. It appeared to me that Heupel may have apologized to Drinkwitz at midfield and explained he had to score some more to put up some style points with the CFP committee. I don't think running up the score is something a team should ever feel bad about when it's playing another team in its league. You're supposed to be on the same level. This isn't like playing Delaware State. Run your stuff. If they can't stop it, that's on them. Add in the situation Tennessee was in and I have no problem with what Heupel did. And I'm sure he knows, if Drinkwitz ever gets a chance to return the favor, he'll do it.
2) Today was a master class from Josh Heupel. Yes, Tennessee has better players. But the Vols did anything they wanted to. Back up and give them cushion, we'll go down the field 12 yards at a time. Come up and press, we'll throw it over the top. Oh, by the way, we're also going to run all over you. Like I said, they have good players. But that much better? A lot of today was about scheme. In fact, a lot of Tennessee's season has been about scheme. It's time to give Heupel his due as an offensive master. Because he has done it everywhere. The only places you could say he's "failed" have been because those teams have had bad defenses. That's not his fault.
3) As Jarod Hamilton wrote, this wasn't just a bad day for the Missouri defense, it was an historic day. The Tigers gave up 750 yards to Oklahoma in 1986. That was a 77-0 loss which was thereafter referred to as the Norman Conquest. Tennessee came up 26 yards short of tying that mark. The Vols had 33 first downs, six short of the most Mizzou has ever given up. The Tigers last gave up at least 66 points on November 20, 1999. It was the last game Larry Smith coached in his next to last season at Mizzou. The last time they lost by more than 42 was Dec 1 2001, the final game of Gary Pinkel's first season in a game against Michigan State that was made up after being canceled on September 11.
4) So how much do we have to reexamine the Missouri defense? Yes, they're better than they were today. But are they not as good as they've been most of the year? I don't think that's fair. I think today is more about Tennessee than it is about Missouri. That said, you do have to admit the success has been a little bit schedule driven. The Tigers' schedule has featured teams with the following total offense ranks: FCS, 105, 97, 90, 79, 62, 40. In other words, 1/2 their games have been against either an FCS team or a team that ranks in the bottom third of total offense in FBS. Again, I think Missouri has a good defense. I think it also has benefitted a little bit from the schedule it has faced.
5) Over on offense, Missouri was better than it has been but it was...fine. Missouri scored 24 points. That is one point better than its season average. Missouri had 389 total yards. That is 39 yards better than its season average. The Tigers had 16 first downs and were 5/17 on third down. We've reached the point where we deem the bare minimum standard of a competent Division One offense as successful. As I said on our postgame show, it's like winning the most improved award. It's great that you got better, but it generally means you were so bad at the beginning that nobody ever thought you were even going to be functional. Missouri's offense was functional today. It really wasn't a whole lot more than that.
6) Find someone that talks about you the way Rick Neuheisel talks about Brady Cook. If he grew today as much as Neuheisel said he grew, Missouri's quarterback is now 17 feet tall. Again, he was decent. He completed 59% of his passes. That would rank 86th in the country for the season. He threw for 217 yards. That would rank 69th. He averaged 6.8 yards per attempt. That would be 84th. He ran well. He did not turn the ball over, which meant he was better than quite a few games this year. But this is the problem: That might have been the best quarterback game of the year and it was somewhere around average. I understand this is how this team has to win. And this offensive effort would have beaten South Carolina or Vandy or maybe even Auburn and Kentucky. But it wasn't going to beat Tennessee and when Missouri played those other teams, it only got a similar effort once. Today might seem like the wrong day to pile on Cook and I'm not trying to do that. I think he played a solid game. I do not think Missouri found its quarterback of the future as Skippy tried to tell me it did so many times.
7) I wrote a column about where this program is. Some of you may very well believe there is undeniable proof that this program is moving forward. I am going to tell you here why I am skeptical that is true (and, no, it's not because I dislike Drinkwitz personally or have anything against him). Mizzou has the same record in Eli Drinkwitz's first 33 games as it did in Barry Odom's first 33 games. In SEC games only, Drinkwitz is one game worse through his first 25 than Odom was in his first 25. In his first three years, Drinkwitz will have two wins over SEC teams that finish the season with an overall winning record if South Carolina wins one of its remaining three games, which is certainly questionable (Tennessee, Clemson, bowl game). The best win so far is either an LSU team that finished 5-5 or last year's South Carolina team that finished 7-6. That's it. There's not another win over a Power Five team with a winning record. While he is 10-15 in SEC play, he is 6-0 against South Carolina and Vanderbilt. He is 4-15 against everyone else. So that's why I'm skeptical.
8) But recruiting. I know. I know. That's what the optimistic crowd is banking on. That the lofty ranking in mid-December means there is more help on the way. And there might be. Earlier this week, I posted a couple of tweets that showed how many snaps true freshmen had played for every team in the league. Missouri had the fourth fewest. All but 11 of those snaps have come from Armand Membou, Mekhi Miller and Luther Burden. In other words, Missouri is playing more experienced players than a lot of teams. And the freshmen should grow and be better players in a year or two than they are right now. That's the hope. They have to be. Because right now, they aren't good enough to play for a bad team. Again, I understand this does not mean they are bad players or busts. I am not saying they are. I am saying that we don't yet know they are good players. And that's part of the problem with this season. I think 5-7 or 6-6 would have been a lot easier to stomach if you had been offered a glimpse of the future and it had made you feel good. We have not been offered that glimpse. So right now, we are being asked to put a whole lot of stock in the idea that the recruiting sites are right about this roster.
9) Nowhere is that more true than quarterback. At this point, Drinkwitz just seems to refuse to play a second QB until he has no other choice. Which is kind of strange because he legitimately did it in the second game he coached here. But he hasn't done it since. I'm not saying Brady Cook shouldn't be the starter or should be benched. Not at all. I'm saying in a game that's 59-24 in the fourth quarter, what would it hurt to give someone else a series? Even if it's Jack Abraham? Because what happens if Cook gets injured? We have absolutely no idea if there's anybody who can go in and do anything at all. Tennessee's backup got in for two series today. The game was over. Maybe Missouri's backup could have gotten sweaty too.
10) I saved this for last because I think most of the board will disagree with me. I have no problem with Josh Heupel throwing deep in the final minutes and hanging 66 on Missouri. Heupel's team still has a chance to make the College Football Playoff. But its schedule offers no help. Tennessee plays three of the four worst teams in the SEC (what's up Texas A&M?) over the last three weeks. They don't just have to win, they have to win BIG. It's a big reason I said coming in that if Heupel could hang 80 on Missouri, he'd do it. Also, the remarks Drinkwitz made this summer were noticed in Knoxville and they have not been forgotten. I don't think he meant them as an insult to Tennessee, but they kind of came off that way and I'm sure they were taken that way by the Vols. Finally, Missouri could have, you know, actually made a play and stopped somebody. It appeared to me that Heupel may have apologized to Drinkwitz at midfield and explained he had to score some more to put up some style points with the CFP committee. I don't think running up the score is something a team should ever feel bad about when it's playing another team in its league. You're supposed to be on the same level. This isn't like playing Delaware State. Run your stuff. If they can't stop it, that's on them. Add in the situation Tennessee was in and I have no problem with what Heupel did. And I'm sure he knows, if Drinkwitz ever gets a chance to return the favor, he'll do it.
FOOTBALL RECRUITING ***FOLLOWING THE FUTURE: WEEK 12***
- The Tiger Walk
- 0 Replies
Following the Future: Week 12
A look back at how Missouri's 2023 commitments performed over the weekend in high school action
Big games from Jamal Roberts and Gabarri Johnson over the weekend
NEW STORY MIZZOU ROUTS LINDENWOOD, 82-53, FOR THIRD-STRAIGHT VICTORY
- By drewking0222
- The Tiger Walk
- 0 Replies
Mizzou routs Lindenwood 82-53 for third-straight victory
Nick Honor made a big impact for the Tigers, but also ran into foul trouble.
BASKETBALL QUICK THOUGHTS ON MIZZOU'S 82-53 WIN OVER LINDENWOOD
- By drewking0222
- The Tiger Walk
- 5 Replies